Fake Book of Mormon Geography -- holes in the script

[Shulem]

"S man"- you continue to put nails in the Book of Mormon coffin-keep it up.

Can you shoot holes in sorenson geography by using the average daily trek of a nephite family, maybe 5- 10 miles a day depending on their use of tapirs and sleds ( no wheels right), so that a 40 day wandering assuming it was not inn circles would yield a 40 x 5 or 40 and 10 miles ( mayan miles) thus 200 - 400 miles as a boundary limitation.

final question was moroni's trek to ny with 50-100 lbs of plates,about 1900 miles a record for that century?

k

These are fascinating distance vs. time restraint calculations that I've not taken into consideration so I can't really offer anything on that at this time. But it does look quite problematic as does everything about the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon is one big problem divided by thousands of other problems.

I have other holes in the script (nails in the coffin) about the Book of Mormon that I do plan on sharing and exploring on this board. I've had enough of the Book of Mormon to last me a lifetime as also the Book of Abraham and now I'm getting even with it and Smith.

[Shulem]

The OP of this thread highlights the fact that the duration of time (days) was not included in Nephi's account when fleeing into the wilderness in search of a new land which would become the land of Nephi. It's incredible and very telling that this important fact was left out of the record and casually represented by the useless and wordy expression: "for the space of many days." It would have been more accurate and use less space on the gold plates to simply record the number of days. The days had to have been known because Nephi maintained a calendar and kept track of how much time had elapsed since leaving Jerusalem. Nephi had to have known how many days they traveled in the wilderness but for reasons mentioned in my earlier posts, Smith couldn't recall the number from his earlier account -- assuming of course, an account of the separation of Nephi from his older brethren was contained in the 116 pages of the Book of Lehi.

Ok, let's give Joseph Smith a free pass for not listing the number of days in the second translation project of the Book of Mormon. It's a free pass! I feel merciful and will let it go at this point.

BUT, let's be perfectly clear about one thing: The 116 pages of the Book of Lehi, absolutely--positively contained the account of the voyage from the Old World to the Americas. Something about that story had to have been related in the 116 page translation manuscript that Smith gave to Martin Harris. It's inconceivable to suggest that an account of the voyage was not mentioned!

What is just as inconceivable is that the the number of days for that voyage was not recorded in Lehi's record that Smith translated with Martin Harris as scribe. And it's equally inconceivable, that the number of days is not recorded in the translation Smith gave to Cowdery in the Book of Mormon, presently constituted.

I cannot give a free pass for this miscalculation in Smith's storytelling because it's obvious to me that Smith was covering up the fact that he couldn't remember how many days was recorded in the 116 page lost manuscript. Smith feared that it would have been easy for Lucy Harris to change the number and thus prove Smith couldn't keep his story straight. Smith was afraid that the sea voyage would come back to haunt him so he left off what should have been obviously contained in his final translation given to Cowdery.

Really, think about it. This is a smoking gun in Smith's inability to keep his story straight by providing one of the most vital statistical numbers that should be in the Book of Mormon -- but it's not.

It is a smoking gun.

[Shulem]

There is every indication that Smith's story of Lehi's transoceanic crossing was supposed to be carefully recorded and that Smith kept track of the time it required to sail from Jerusalem to the promised land but failed to record the number of days because he couldn't remember what had previously been transcribed by Martin Harris.

It's impossible to know what Smith originally recorded in the 116 lost pages pertaining to the voyage. That will ever remain a mystery. But the account we have in the Book of Mormon strongly suggest that Smith originally intended to keep track of the days pertaining to the whole of the voyage although a final tally was never tendered in the record other than, "for the space of many days". The introduction of going into the ship and being driven forth by the wind begins with the following:

8 And it came to pass after we had all gone down into the ship, and had taken with us our provisions and things which had been commanded us, we did put forth into the sea and were driven forth before the wind towards the promised land.

The first marker of the voyage is with reference to the rebellion of Nephi's brethren wherein it seems they began to party and have a good time. Smith failed to record the number of days already had by the voyage. This may be because the event was recorded in the 116 lost pages and Smith couldn't remember how many days he originally gave so he applied the "for the space of many days", instead of the number of days that actually passed.

9 And after we had been driven forth before the wind for the space of many days, behold, my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and also their wives began to make themselves merry, insomuch that they began to dance, and to sing, and to speak with much rudeness, yea, even that they did forget by what power they had been brought thither; yea, they were lifted up unto exceeding rudeness.

The next marker involved Nephi being bound by cords and the compass failing to work. Note that Smith faithfully records the time having passed during the storm as: 3 days.

13 Wherefore, they knew not whither they should steer the ship, insomuch that there arose a great storm, yea, a great and terrible tempest, and we were driven back upon the waters for the space of three days; and they began to be frightened exceedingly lest they should be drowned in the sea; nevertheless they did not loose me.

The final marker to prove that Smith was keeping track of the days is when the ship was about to sink due to the storm.

14 And on the fourth day, which we had been driven back, the tempest began to be exceedingly sore.

The above time references indicate that Smith was keeping track of how long the voyage took and that the story of the voyage provided both a start and end -- but no number of days! The number of days was left out of the record for obvious reasons. Smith was worried Lucy Harris could have easily scratched out the record and recorded a different number so he had no choice other than to avoid the issue entirely.

[Shulem]

There are major differences that should be pointed out between the voyage of Lehi and that of the Jaredites. One was by ship and the other by an account of ridiculous barges that make for an impossible voyage. There are extreme differences between the two types of voyages and yet the Jaredite voyage records the number of days but Nephi's account fails to keep track of the duration of time for the most important and epic journey of the entire Book of Mormon. Compare the following with the stories told in the Book of Mormon and see if something particular comes to mind with regards to the sailors recording their time at sea.

23 And it came to pass that after we had sailed for the space of many days we did arrive at the promised land; and we went forth upon the land, and did pitch our tents; and we did call it the promised land.

11 And thus they were driven forth, three hundred and forty and four days upon the water.

Note the differences between the two journeys:

Jaredite Voyage:

• they got aboard of their vessels or barges, and set forth into the sea

• wind blow upon the face of the waters, towards the promised land; and thus they were tossed upon the waves of the sea before the wind

• And it came to pass that they were many times buried in the depths of the sea

• their vessels being tight like unto a dish, and also they were tight like unto the ark of Noah; therefore when they were encompassed about by many waters

• And it came to pass that the wind did never cease to blow towards the promised land while they were upon the waters

• they were driven forth; and no monster of the sea could break them, neither whale that could mar them

• And they did land upon the shore of the promised land

Lehi's Voyage:

• I had finished the ship

• it was good, and that the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine

• we should arise and go down into the ship

• we did put forth into the sea and were driven forth before the wind

• we had been driven forth before the wind for the space of many days

• there arose a great storm, yea, a great and terrible tempest, and we were driven back upon the waters

• the winds did cease, and the storm did cease, and there was a great calm

• I, Nephi, did guide the ship, that we sailed again towards the promised land

• after we had sailed for the space of many days we did arrive at the promised land

What's the main difference between the crafts of the two voyages?

• SHIP

• BARGES

Which of the crafts would naturally provide easy means to keep track of the days of a voyage? Bear in mind, a ship is raised above the water to include a deck, open top, and a mast. The barges were something entirely different and were not upon topped having a deck. The ship was open to the world and night and day was like clock work. The darkness within the barges, however, was entirely different and keeping track of time would be challenging. It's inconceivable that Nephi did not record the number of days by carving a notch on the ship mast or deck rails of the ship. It makes no sense that the Book of Mormon fails to record the number of days when anyone with half a brain would simply carve notches and keep track of the voyage.

[Shulem]

A Book of Commandments & Revelations

Revelation given to Joseph Smith, July 1828, regarding the loss of the 116 pages
Handwriting of John Whitmer
Includes redactions

Saying the wordks of & designs & the Purposes of God cannot
be frustrated neither can they come to ground naught for God
doth not walk in crooked paths

The devil is in the details and it's interesting how the first accounting of the original manuscript detailing information about the lost 116 pages refers to "words", but the "d" was later redacted -- crossed out, and replaced with a "k", thus changed to "works" which is what was published. Obviously, Smith was originally concerned with words in his manuscript being used to prove that he couldn't translate again but this first accounting of the earliest revelation shifts away from words and classify the whole as the works of God.

Later, however, in D&C 10, Smith makes it perfectly clear that it's really the words being changed that worries him:

10 And, behold, Satan hath put it into their hearts to alter the words which you have caused to be written, or which you have translated, which have gone out of your hands.

Section 10 of the D&C mentions the altering of words a total of 10 times! It's clear that Smith was worried that key words such as the number of days for the Nephite voyage along with a variation of the telling of the story would prove that he was incapable of telling the same exact story again and thus his ability to translate gold plates by the power of God would be disproved. So, Smith pretended to switch stories from the so-called Book of Lehi and replace it with the so-called abridgment of Nephi, thus pretending to tell the same story from another account contained on the gold plates.

If you can believe that.

I don't.

[Shulem]

I forgot to mention above while listing the differences between the sea voyages that the Book of Mormon translation explains the Nephite story entirely in terms of first person ("I"), but the Jeradite expedition is incorporated within the narrative in third person ("they"). Not that it matters, I suppose, but you'd think that someone speaking in first person (Nephi) would be able to say how long he was at sea. Taking all this into consideration, it becomes glaringly obvious that the number of days spent voyaging was intentionally left out of the record for good reason.

A) Nephi was too lazy to check the notches and record the number on the plates
B) Smith was too afraid to record a number that differed with Lucy Harris's manuscript

I opt for answer B.

[Shulem]

Your Goddamn wife has stolen my manuscript and now she thinks to alter it to disprove a second translation? Is that what that bitch thinks of me?

Oh, my God!

"All is lost! All is lost!"

"What shall I do?"


Smith wrote a story and to reproduce the same thing was simply not possible. Smith must have felt very upset knowing he lost his original story and he knew he couldn't duplicate the same story from memory.

[Shulem]

Martin, something is not right about this voyage.





Lucy, how long did he say it took to cross the ocean from the Old World to get to America?





We'll just see if ole Joe can translate the same story all over again and then Martin will know it's another Smith family hoax.





I believe ole Joe. Good day, Lucy.

[huckelberry]

So what happened to those missing pages?

I suppose they could have gone into the fireplace but why? Did someone want to make a do over, a new start?

[Shulem]

So what happened to those missing pages?

I suppose they could have gone into the fireplace but why? Did someone want to make a do over, a new start?

There is no telling for sure what became of the Lost 116 pages (Wikipedia). It's not outside the realm of possibility, the entire manuscript or a part thereof may surface someday, having been stored up and long forgotten in someone's attic or between old book covers. Wouldn't that be Mormonism's worst nightmare!

There is no question or doubt in my mind that the original manuscript recorded a number for the days of voyage. Absolutely none! I would love to get my hand's on that manuscript. Oh the damage that could be done to Mormonism and it would be so delicious watching Mormons squirm like worms just as they did with the lost papyrus for the Book of Abraham.

See also Lucy Harris (Wikipedia)