Steve Young's wife opposes prop 8 with $25K

[_Rollo Tomasi]

We don't quash dissent. You and Scratch are still alive.

Again, I'll repeat -- I was referring to emotional/mental quashing, not physical.

The so-called September Six are still hailed as martyrs by some loons and live their lives.

But many, if not all, suffered significant emotional pain by being ex'ed.

We have a jackbooted thug organization which has been shown to have once asked a man to meet with two people to discuss the gospel....and that is basically all the evidence we have of what they do.

This so-called "clipping service" also collects dossiers on troublemakers, which are turned over to local leaders for a "court of love." Many have been silenced this way.

Yes, and when I go to Church I have NEVER seen anyone breaking the earring rule. We suck at quashing dissent.

Fortunately you weren't in love with Bednar's RM, or you might think differently.

I present this as further proof for my earlier idiot assertion.

No need to show yourself the idiot -- just live and learn, dude.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

This is different than Lucifer's plan. People can choose to retain their church membership through obediance. Satan's plan would have given us no choice between obeying and disobeying.

Neither sounds like much of a choice to me ... which is precisely my point.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Have you been to Church lately?

Have you been to the temple lately? A particular oath therein binds any faithful member to do whatever he/she is told by the Brethren.

[_asbestosman]

Neither sounds like much of a choice to me ... which is precisely my point.

Perhaps you should have made your point differently. God's plan has never been about removing the spiritual, emotional, or other consequences of our choices.

I mean, what's the point of being a member of the NRA if you want to outlaw guns? Do they follow Satan's plan if they kick revoke membership from such people?

[_The Nehor]

We don't quash dissent. You and Scratch are still alive.

Again, I'll repeat -- I was referring to emotional/mental quashing, not physical.

The so-called September Six are still hailed as martyrs by some loons and live their lives.

But many, if not all, suffered significant emotional pain by being ex'ed.

We have a jackbooted thug organization which has been shown to have once asked a man to meet with two people to discuss the gospel....and that is basically all the evidence we have of what they do.

This so-called "clipping service" also collects dossiers on troublemakers, which are turned over to local leaders for a "court of love." Many have been silenced this way.

Yes, and when I go to Church I have NEVER seen anyone breaking the earring rule. We suck at quashing dissent.

Fortunately you weren't in love with Bednar's RM, or you might think differently.

I present this as further proof for my earlier idiot assertion.

No need to show yourself the idiot -- just live and learn, dude.

Emotional pain? Let me call the waambulance. If you set yourself up in opposition to the Church you DON'T agree with it's precepts and we validate your decision by expelling you. Many of the Six were milking it for popularity....or how else do you explain the news crews waiting outside for an interview after some of their courts? The Church didn't tell them.

Silenced? Does taking your name off a record constitute silencing someone? Is their free speech somehow hampered? After they were kicked out of the Church the first thing many seem to want to do is tell everyone about it and they do. They don't get the right to claim membership in the Church while fighting it. If the loss of some kind of 'insider' status is silencing them, then we silence them but I think that is an abuse of the word silenced.

If you want to marry someone who takes prophetic counsel seriously then you should probably also take prophetic counsel seriously. Bednar's RM understood this. It's not a hard concept.

[_The Nehor]

Have you been to Church lately?

Have you been to the temple lately? A particular oath therein binds any faithful member to do whatever he/she is told by the Brethren.

Uhhhhh......no.

[_moksha]

Frankly, I'm not even sure why the government "punishes" (by removing tax-exempt status) religions if they become too political.

It's that darn separation of Church and State thing again. But don't worry, this only applies outside of Uah.

[_asbestosman]

Frankly, I'm not even sure why the government "punishes" (by removing tax-exempt status) religions if they become too political.

It's that darn separation of Church and State thing again. But don't worry, this only applies outside of Uah.

Or at least outside of the red states.

[_truth dancer]

What I'm actually saying is that if you believe the prophet speaks God's words, then you probably ought to follow them. If your personal revelation/inspiration contradicts the words of the prophets, then perhaps you ought to figure out whether the prophet is really preaching God's words and whether the church is really true. If you conclude that such is not the case, then it doesn't make much sense to fork over 10% of income + lots of time to be a member.

In other words, when the prophet speaks the thinking has been done.

OK. ;-)

They should re-evalutate the relationship between God, the prophets, the church, and themselves and figure out where they want to be.

In other words, if someone gets a personal revelation or feels inspired to disagree with a prophet, they are not in tune with God.

Again... when the prophet speaks the thinking has been done.

Obey.

~td~

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Emotional pain? Let me call the waambulance. If you set yourself up in opposition to the Church you DON'T agree with it's precepts and we validate your decision by expelling you.

You appear to equate "Church" with "the Brethren." I don't.

Many of the Six were milking it for popularity....or how else do you explain the news crews waiting outside for an interview after some of their courts? The Church didn't tell them.

Let's use one of the Six as an example: Avraham Gileadi. He was a popular and very conservative LDS writer who wrote about Isaiah and the last days, books which Deseret Books carried. The books were eventually pulled from the shelves and he was excommunicated in September 1993. He was eventually re-baptized and since then has toned down in his current writings some of the more extreme elements present in his past books. Avraham is the perfect example of a faithful member being punished to silence him (or at least tone him down).

They don't get the right to claim membership in the Church while fighting it.

Again, you appear to equate "Church" with infallible Brethren. Each member has the same claim to the Church as do the Brethren. The Brethren don't own the Church, and using their administrative powers to quash open debate and discussion is more akin to Lucifer's plan than Christ's, in my opinion.

If you want to marry someone who takes prophetic counsel seriously then you should probably also take prophetic counsel seriously.

Praytell, what exactly was "prophetic" about an elderly man expressing his disdain for current fashion of female adornment?

Bednar's RM understood this. It's not a hard concept.

Now who sounds like an idiot?