BY vs Henry Jacobs

[_Jason Bourne]

What a sad story.

And yet people like Jason would gladly send his kids to the school which bears the name of that son of a bitch, Brigham Young.

Hey what can I say.

The tuition is priced right.

And it is a good school.

Oh and by the way since I am not sure where this personal attack out of left field came, kiss off jerk.

[_Jersey Girl]

Suitable for framing:

Oh and by the way since I am not sure where this personal attack out of left field came, kiss off jerk.

I totally love Jason Bourne.
:-)

[_Seven]

There must have been something desirous about Zina to make men covet her like that.


I can well understand why these sealings where kept under wraps by the coveters till they reached Utah. I suppose I can also see with social mores being what they were back then, as to why all three men did not simply share Zina and whoever else came their way.

What we have here is an ambitious woman who was willing to sell her body to the highest bidder... and three men who were more than willing to bid. Henry lost out because he had the least to offer. Love doesn't count for much, when the other guys have power and authority. I wonder how many people back East knew the Zina story?

Exactly.
From "Mormon Polygamy" by Richard VanWagoner:

"President Young told Zina if she would marry him she would be in a higher glory." stated by Brigham and Zina's only child

"There was another way-in which a woman could leave a man-if the woman preferred-another man higher in authority and he is willing to take her. & her husband gives her up-there is no bill of divorce required in the case it is right in the sight of God" Brigham Young October 8, 1861 General Conference statement on divorce

And as we know from verse 7 of section 132 of the D & C, all legal wedding vows, contracts, etc. were void under the new higher law of Celestial Marriage. Polyandry was only a temporary necessity to protect those participating from persecution until they were safely isolated in Utah. (and allowed if you read verse 41) Once there, Zina was able to openly live with her "preferred" Priesthood holder Brigham Young.

Henry willingly sacrificed his wife for the church:
"Zina, my mind never will change from Worlds without Ends, no never, the same affection is there and never can be moved I do not murmur nor complain of the handling's of God, no verily, no but I feel alone and no one to speak to, to call my own. I feel like a lamb without a mother, I do not blame any person or persons, no-May the Lord our Father bless Brother Brigham and all purtains unto him forever. tell him for me I have no feelings against him nor never had, all is right according to the Law of the Celestial Kingdom of our God Joseph."

That is heartbreaking.
I think it's clear why Henry sacrificed his wife.

There is also a statement by Henry Jacobs (can't find it at the moment) in which he expressed that he had wished his wife was not so beautiful because so many men were after her. Joseph aggressively pursued her before she married Henry and continued to pressure her after the marriage until she gave in.

[_moksha]

Henry willingly sacrificed his wife for the church:
"Zina, my mind never will change from Worlds without Ends, no never, the same affection is there and never can be moved I do not murmur nor complain of the handling's of God, no verily, no but I feel alone and no one to speak to, to call my own. I feel like a lamb without a mother, I do not blame any person or persons, no-May the Lord our Father bless Brother Brigham and all purtains unto him forever. tell him for me I have no feelings against him nor never had, all is right according to the Law of the Celestial Kingdom of our God Joseph."

That is heartbreaking.
I think it's clear why Henry sacrificed his wife.

The opposite of this reaction is the case where the enraged husband murdered Parley P. Pratt for poaching his wife. This wife stealing practice in the guise of moving up the holy ladder, was fraught with many perils for the LDS leadership. Glad they abandoned it. Having the top leaders be senior aged men, has reduced this problem to nil.

[_Yong Xi]

Henry willingly sacrificed his wife for the church:
"Zina, my mind never will change from Worlds without Ends, no never, the same affection is there and never can be moved I do not murmur nor complain of the handling's of God, no verily, no but I feel alone and no one to speak to, to call my own. I feel like a lamb without a mother, I do not blame any person or persons, no-May the Lord our Father bless Brother Brigham and all purtains unto him forever. tell him for me I have no feelings against him nor never had, all is right according to the Law of the Celestial Kingdom of our God Joseph."

That is heartbreaking.
I think it's clear why Henry sacrificed his wife.

The opposite of this reaction is the case where the enraged husband murdered Parley P. Pratt for poaching his wife. This wife stealing practice in the guise of moving up the holy ladder, was fraught with many perils for the LDS leadership. Glad they abandoned it. Having the top leaders be senior aged men, has reduced this problem to nil.

Now the widower senior aged GAs are fighting over the 50 year old virgins.

[_Alter Idem]

Zina may have loved Henry when she first married him, but it's clear, she no longer wanted him sometime after after she was sealed to Brigham Young and Henry went on a mission--which allowed her to make the break completely. I feel very sorry for Henry that he never got over her leaving him--but it's clear she didn't want him. Zina was no pawn, Brigham didn't "steal" her..she saw an opportunity to get out of her marriage to Henry and live openly with Brigham Young as his wife, and she took it.

[_John Larsen]

I think that we have been willing to give Zina too much of a pass in this whole thing. She was a member of the relief society in Nauvoo and actively participated in the deception of Emma. Brigham Young smashed the relief society and the power that it promised women and when he reorganized it 20 years later she was willing to take the lead of the crippled organization. I think the evidence is clear that Zina knew what she was doing and was not just a passive victim.

[_Ray A]

I feel very sorry for Henry that he never got over her leaving him--but it's clear she didn't want him. Zina was no pawn, Brigham didn't "steal" her..she saw an opportunity to get out of her marriage to Henry and live openly with Brigham Young as his wife, and she took it.

Perhaps the 19th century Mormon term for "Dear John" was "Dear Henry"?

[_Ray A]

Zina may have loved Henry when she first married him, but it's clear, she no longer wanted him sometime after after she was sealed to Brigham Young and Henry went on a mission--which allowed her to make the break completely. I feel very sorry for Henry that he never got over her leaving him--but it's clear she didn't want him. Zina was no pawn, Brigham didn't "steal" her..she saw an opportunity to get out of her marriage to Henry and live openly with Brigham Young as his wife, and she took it.

On a more serious note, I think this scenario probably fits, the way you, and Allen Wyatt also put it on MADB.

This was Allen's comment:

My take was stated earlier: Zina made her choices--and it really was her choices--and they were what they were. She will have to answer for those choices. If we all get into the hereafter and God approves, we are all whistling into the wind. If we get there and find out He doesn't approve, we are still doing the same because (again) they are her choices.

If we use her choices as a bludgeon with which to beat her, Joseph, Brigham, or the Church, then we will need to answer for our choices. We all need to judge righteous judgment. I think that includes a little charity (pure love of Christ) for those people that we view through a glass darkly.

The point is that Zina didn't initiate this, as far as I'm aware. It was initiated by Brigham Young (perhaps there was some flirting between them). Although Zina may have wanted to go with him, it would not have been possible without Brigham's invitation. Then, he tells Henry to go find one of his own "kindred spirits". What's that? Children of a lesser God? This is a classic case of married woman lusts after more powerful man, both conspire to break up a marriage. The only real victim is Henry.

[_harmony]

On a more serious note, I think this scenario probably fits, the way you, and Allen Wyatt also put it on MADB.

This was Allen's comment:

My take was stated earlier: Zina made her choices--and it really was her choices--and they were what they were. She will have to answer for those choices. If we all get into the hereafter and God approves, we are all whistling into the wind. If we get there and find out He doesn't approve, we are still doing the same because (again) they are her choices.

If we use her choices as a bludgeon with which to beat her, Joseph, Brigham, or the Church, then we will need to answer for our choices. We all need to judge righteous judgment. I think that includes a little charity (pure love of Christ) for those people that we view through a glass darkly.

Dear Mr Wyatt: even if we use her choices...her choices... as a bludgeon with which beat her, we will have exercised our righteous judgment. Polygamy... polyandry... all of it... is and was an Abomination, so declared by God in the Book of Mormon. Now, either you believe the book or you don't, but taking people to task for exercising their righteous judgment is.. well... unrighteous.

And personally, I think the Zina situation is pretty cut and dried, so seeing "darkly" isn't the issue. Ambition and lust... those are the issues.

And Henry was a weakling. He should have told Brigham where to stick it, and not made it easy for either Brigham or Zina.