Journey of Faith DVDs

[_Daniel Peterson]

Where are you suggesting she make those assertions?

I'm sure that Sunstone and Dialogue would be interested in her criticisms. There are probably other venues, but those come immediately to mind.

[_harmony]

My refusal to sell things during church services or in the chapel has nothing whatever to do with my judgment of what is or isn't "good enough for my flock."

I think fruit and vegetables and oatmeal would be excellent for my flock, as would several savings and investment vehicles, but I don't believe it would be appropriate to set up a produce stand or a cereal aisle or a brokerage in the chapel.

Remember "Dare to be Great"? The presentation in my ward took place in the chapel. Even then I thought that was strange.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Remember "Dare to be Great"? The presentation in my ward took place in the chapel. Even then I thought that was strange.

I've never heard of it. But if it involved sales pitches in the chapel, I would find that deeply inappropriate -- and so, it seems, would the leadership of the Church.

[_beastie]

No, basically DCP plays the "I'm tired of attempting conversation with beastie" card, and notes, in passing, that her assertion of glaringly obvious errors in the DVD might not play so well if she asserted it in a place where those who made the allegedly obvious errors (and who have solid training and substantial experience in Mesoamerican studies) were aware of it. This latter point seems fairly uncontroversial.

I made three criticisms regarding three assertions in the dvd:

1 - Wade Miller said: “They would have found horses here, which are for the most part easily domesticated. The earliest horses in the world were here in North America, and it wasn’t until later, geologically speaking, that they got into the Old World.”

2 - Several scholars - including DCP - were cited to build the case that Nephi became a leader of Kaminaljuyu and hence led that same polity to greatness

3 - Several scholars were cited to build the case that the Nephites were a significant polity between Teotihuacan and Tikal, and perhaps that is why they were attacked by Teotihuacan. This is problematic given the fact that powerful polities were the most influential polities in Mesoamerica, who heavily influenced the religious and political practices of other polities. We should expect to see some Nephite influence in Mesoamerica if they were such a significant polity.

Now, admittedly numbers 2 and 3 require a certain amount of background knowledge about ancient Mesoamerica to grasp. However, DCP is one of the scholars cited in that section, so should be able to defend it. I have already had a discussion with Brant regarding number 2, because he also wrote a meridian article with the same suggestion. Later today I will try to find the link to that discussion.

Number 1 is the simplest. No reputable scholar would condone the blanket statement "they would have found horses there". This uncomfortable fact is the reason why LDS apologetics have developed theories such as the tapir theory.

[_Tom]

Where are you suggesting she make those assertions?

I'm sure that Sunstone and Dialogue would be interested in her criticisms. There are probably other venues, but those come immediately to mind.

FARMS Review comes immediately to mind as a venue.

[_harmony]

I'm sure that Sunstone and Dialogue would be interested in her criticisms. There are probably other venues, but those come immediately to mind.

FARMS Review comes immediately to mind as a venue.

FROB? Only if she's feeling exceptionally masochistic.

Do the aforementioned MesoAmerican experts would read Sunstone and Dialogue? Those aren't MesoAmerican publications. And wouldn't mainstream MesoAmerican experts benefit from reading her literature review and conclusions too?

But there ya go, Trix. Polish up the website to it reads like a dissertation, and submit to Sunstone or Dialogue. I wonder what they would say if under Author's Name it said Trixie or beastie.

I think Brant would read it. I don't know about the others.

[_Daniel Peterson]

FROB? Only if she's feeling exceptionally masochistic.

My impression, which may be wrong, is that harmony is even less familiar with the FARMS Review than the Scartchmeister is.

Do the aforementioned MesoAmerican experts would read Sunstone and Dialogue? Those aren't MesoAmerican publications.

Latter-day Saint Mesoamericanists are Latter-day Saints as well as Mesoamericanists -- that's rather implied, I think, by the descriptor Latter-day Saint Mesoamericanists -- and they would soon be aware that they had come under attack in a periodical targeted to an LDS-interested readership.

And wouldn't mainstream MesoAmerican experts benefit from reading her literature review and conclusions too?

Maybe. I doubt that they would be interested. But beastie is entirely welcome and free to make the attempt.

But there ya go, Trix. Polish up the website to it reads like a dissertation, and submit to Sunstone or Dialogue.

That harmony thinks that Sunstone and Dialogue read like anthologies of dissertations leads me to suspect that she's unfamiliar with them, too.

[_Daniel Peterson]

FARMS Review comes immediately to mind as a venue.

Beastie is welcome to submit her critique to the FARMS Review.

There's no guarantee that we would publish it -- I don't make such guarantees in advance, and certainly wouldn't do so in the case of an unfamiliar author -- but we would consider it.

[_Ray A]

FARMS Review comes immediately to mind as a venue.

Beastie is welcome to submit her critique to the FARMS Review.

There's no guarantee that we would publish it -- I don't make such guarantees in advance, and certainly wouldn't do so in the case of an unfamiliar author -- but we would consider it.

Dan, we've already seen a review of Dr. Shades' site by John Vedtnes, in 2000 I think. Dr. Shades didn't submit anything to FARMS. Perhaps we might see a review of beastie's site by John Clark, John Sorenson, Brant Gardener, or another interested anthropologist? You have to admit, she does raise points that seem difficult to answer, and she's already gone quite a few rounds with Brant over the past few years.

[_JustMe]

beastie

This uncomfortable fact is the reason why LDS apologetics have developed theories such as the tapir theory.

This is such uninformed hyperbole one doesn't know where to even begin! Sheesh!