Dr. Peterson, why no mention of Joseph Smith's other wives on website?

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Daniel Peterson
_Emeritus
Posts: 7173
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:56 pm

Re: Dr. Peterson, why no mention of Joseph Smith's other wives on website?

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Inconceivable wrote:This is the first thread where you nearly seem to draw a reasonable conclusion.

No it's not.

I routinely draw reasonable conclusions.

I offer, as merely one specimen chosen from among very many, my deduction that Master Scartch is an obsessive, malevolent, grimly humorless loon with a bizarre and malignant fixation on me.

I ask you, what could possibly be more reasonable than that?

QED.
_collegeterrace
_Emeritus
Posts: 603
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:28 am

Re: Dr. Peterson, why no mention of Joseph Smith's other wives on website?

Post by _collegeterrace »

Daniel Peterson wrote:I'm in favor of more openness about plural marriage.


Wow.

Had you been this kind and gentler when I first came to the then named Fair board with questions, perhaps my wife and I would still be members, raising a large LDS family.


















not.



But then there is the problem with the church not being true.

Never mind, please do keep on with the pompous arrogant holier than thou asshole Mormon persona.
... our church isn't true, but we have to keep up appearances so we don't get shunned by our friends and family, fired from our jobs, kicked out of our homes, ... Please don't tell on me. ~maklelan
_mms
_Emeritus
Posts: 642
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:10 pm

Re: Dr. Peterson, why no mention of Joseph Smith's other wives on website?

Post by _mms »

Daniel Peterson wrote:
Inconceivable wrote:This is the first thread where you nearly seem to draw a reasonable conclusion.

No it's not.

I routinely draw reasonable conclusions.

I offer, as merely one specimen chosen from among very many, my deduction that Master Scartch is an obsessive, malevolent, grimly humorless loon with a bizarre and malignant fixation on me.

I ask you, what could possibly be more reasonable than that?

QED.


Uhhhh. I predict a derailment not unlike that found in my thread "They can speculate but I am not permitted to explain". Maybe discipline will prevail and we will stay on topic, here? Or let the thread die now that the question has been answered thoroughly and forthrightly by the good Doctor?
_Inconceivable
_Emeritus
Posts: 3405
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:44 am

Re: Dr. Peterson, why no mention of Joseph Smith's other wives on website?

Post by _Inconceivable »

mms wrote:Maybe discipline will prevail and we will stay on topic, here?


I'm good. Carry on.
_Sethbag
_Emeritus
Posts: 6855
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:52 am

Re: Dr. Peterson, why no mention of Joseph Smith's other wives on website?

Post by _Sethbag »

I too believe that the church doesn't mention the plural wives because it's embarrassed by it, and because the muckety mucks believe it would potentially weaken existing testimonies and prevent others from being formed. Since the Prime Directive seems to be to grow the church and maintain those already in it, being honest and forthright about Joseph's rampant polygamy is simply not an option.

And, it seems, DCP seems to somewhat agree. He did come into the thread and answer with his opinion, which is that he'd prefer the church would be more open about this, and that a desire to avoid trouble probably played into why they don't have this kind of information on that site. DCP's response was asked, and he gave it. The purpose of this thread is therefor fulfilled.

***********************************************************

ps: I bristle when people say, or insinuate, that Joseph Smith's plural marriage was not that important in the history of the church and whatnot. It was massively important, and appears to have played a major, even dominating role, in the disaffection of at least a few of the prominent apostates, including William Law, who seems to have focused strongly on that. Law's publication of the Expositor, and Joseph's reaction to that, lead directly to Joseph Smith's murder at Carthage - and the Expositor seems mainly to have been aimed at criticism of Joseph Smith's practice of "plural marriage", and threatened to expose more information regarding the same. The importance of Smith's practice of polygamy is therefore absolutely crucial to an understanding of the Nauvoo period, and Smith's own death. How important does something need to freaking be to merit inclusion in a discussion of Joseph Smith?

pps: I know many here have read this already, but for those who haven't, here's a link to Uncle Dale's site, where the Nauvoo Expositor is reproduced in its entirety. Go ahead and read it. When I was young I believed the Expositor must have been printed by evil men, inspired by Satan himself to fight against the innocent Joseph Smith. When I actually read the freaking Expositor myself, many years later, and after I'd already lost my testimony, I was shocked again and again by the fact that William Law was just telling things that, at least in part, history has borne out the truth of. He was opposed to Joseph Smith's polygamy, and that was really the thing that drove him. I'm opposed to Joseph Smith's practice as well, and find I have to agree with William Law. Joseph Smith really was a cad. He was more than that, actually. He was a damned asshole to Emma, and he used women literally by the dozen. If there's actually a place where some kind of life essence lives on after death, Joseph Smith will certainly have a lot to answer for in eternity.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
_Ray A

Re: Dr. Peterson, why no mention of Joseph Smith's other wives on website?

Post by _Ray A »

Sethbag wrote: He was more than that, actually. He was a f*****g asshole to Emma, and he used women literally by the dozen. If there's actually a place where some kind of life essence lives on after death, Joseph Smith will certainly have a lot to answer for in eternity.


Seth, you may need to bear in mind that William Law said that Emma and Joseph deserved each other. They were worthy of each other. Emma covered his infidelities, and even later denied that he practised polygamy.

I refer you to my Blog Post on this.
_Sethbag
_Emeritus
Posts: 6855
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:52 am

Re: Dr. Peterson, why no mention of Joseph Smith's other wives on website?

Post by _Sethbag »

Ray A wrote:
Sethbag wrote: He was more than that, actually. He was a f*****g asshole to Emma, and he used women literally by the dozen. If there's actually a place where some kind of life essence lives on after death, Joseph Smith will certainly have a lot to answer for in eternity.


Seth, you may need to bear in mind that William Law said that Emma and Joseph deserved each other. They were worthy of each other. Emma covered his infidelities, and even later denied that he practised polygamy.

I refer you to my Blog Post on this.

I don't know enough about Emma herself, really, to comment, except to say that I find it quite likely that Emma, who was a consummate survivor, was undoubtedly shaped and molded into what she was by Joseph's actions. By the time William Law knew Emma, she'd already been Joseph's wife for at least a dozen years.

At any rate, Emma may have had her shortcomings as well, I don't know. But none of that changes just how awfully Joseph Smith treated her. On the one hand, Mormons will point to a love letter Joseph wrote to her while in prison. On the other hand, Emma had to find out time and again that Joseph Smith had been boinking the hired help, her friends, and even their wards. Remember the letter Joseph wrote to one of his secret wives instructing her on when to meet him so they could get it on, but instructing her to burn the letter as soon as she read it, and to make doubly sure Emma didn't know they were meeting?
Oh yeah, and he actually threatened her with 'destruction' in section 132, trying to force her compliance by pretending to order her to give in to him on polygamy in the name of God. Yeah, that's some loving husband. Total cad.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
_Ray A

Re: Dr. Peterson, why no mention of Joseph Smith's other wives on website?

Post by _Ray A »

Sethbag wrote:I don't know enough about Emma herself, really, to comment, except to say that I find it quite likely that Emma, who was a consummate survivor, was undoubtedly shaped and molded into what she was by Joseph's actions. By the time William Law knew Emma, she'd already been Joseph's wife for at least a dozen years.

At any rate, Emma may have had her shortcomings as well, I don't know. But none of that changes just how awfully Joseph Smith treated her. On the one hand, Mormons will point to a love letter Joseph wrote to her while in prison. On the other hand, Emma had to find out time and again that Joseph Smith had been boinking the hired help, her friends, and even their wards. Remember the letter Joseph wrote to one of his secret wives instructing her on when to meet him so they could get it on, but instructing her to burn the letter as soon as she read it, and to make doubly sure Emma didn't know they were meeting?
Oh yeah, and he actually threatened her with 'destruction' in section 132, trying to force her compliance by pretending to order her to give in to him on polygamy in the name of God. Yeah, that's some loving husband. Total cad.


Being a total, uninspired infidel, Droopy's dart board, somehow, and through the manipulation of Satanic forces - I believe William Law. See my blog post.

Polygamy is possibly the most horrendous mistake Joseph Smith ever made.
_Inconceivable
_Emeritus
Posts: 3405
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:44 am

Re: Dr. Peterson, why no mention of Joseph Smith's other wives on website?

Post by _Inconceivable »

Ray A wrote:Polygamy is possibly the most horrendous mistake Joseph Smith ever made.


..or the most blatantly wicked.

The hierarchy doesn't print about it because most simple folk like myself see it as it is:

A crime against nature
Deplorable
Immoral
Covenant breaking
Malevolent
Self absorbed
A Violence
Evil
Disease spreading
Anti social
Home wrecking
An abomination
Heart breaking
Inocence stealing
Faith destroying
Trust diminishing
Faith denying...

Only lost/heathen cultures continue to practice this woman demeaning violence.

There is no civilized nation upon earth that will accept this abomination.

The Mormon church is embarrassed of their God and His character when they discover His true nature (as Hinckley revealed in his interviews several years ago). The hierarchy hasn't the faith and conviction necessary to walk their talk and defend Him in all of His horrible glory after they come to know Him.
_ludwigm
_Emeritus
Posts: 10158
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:07 am

Re: Dr. Peterson, why no mention of Joseph Smith's other wives on website?

Post by _ludwigm »

Inconceivable wrote:
ludwigm wrote:You know, at that time the wives were not too significant objects.
Excellent observation, Ludwigm.
This, in my opinion, is the most revealing of all comments upon the subject.
Particularly second wives (and so on), the presidents' dogs have received as much attention.

Dogs?

Irving Wallace: The Twenty Seventh Wife (p101) wrote:"I think no more of taking another wife than I do of buying a cow, and if you want to build up the kingdom you must take more wives." - Apostle Heber C. Kimball


The handling of the many wives was the product of that era as the Word of Wisdom or the handling of blacks was.
The status of the women was what it was, and Joseph Smith couldn't have tell something different.

He hadn't the Red Telephon to God. Or the line was broken. Or nobody is sitting on the other part.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
Post Reply