God is Ultimately Responsible for Evil

[_KimberlyAnn]

Yes, I read the abortion thread. No, I didn't weigh in, for personal reasons, though I thought about it.

After reading the thread, I was, again, struck by the problem of evil. It's an issue that has dogged me for years.

I am unable to understand why so many people who believe in God are quick to give Him credit for everything good, yet absolve Him of any responsibility for evil. Silentkid noted the convenience of that view in the abortion thread.

If God is omnipotent, and created the world from nothing, as most Christians believe, then how is it logical to believe He is the author of good, but not of evil? Could not He have made His creation differently? Could not He have made it so that every child was born without defect? So that there were no droughts, famines, pestilences, hurricanes, volcanoes, etc.? Could He not have made man a peaceful creature, predisposed to kindness and free from greed and hatred? He could have! But He didn't.

If one believes in God, then one must believe that man is exactly the product of how God made him. The earth, and all it's plagues, are exactly as God intended it. God could end famines with nothing more than a thought, but He doesn't. He could end sickness and disease. But, He doesn't.

God is ultimately responsible for evil. Other than discounting belief in Him, I cannot come up with any other option.

Kimberly Ann

[_truth dancer]

Hi KA...

I'm RIGHT with you!

I can live with the idea that the universe evolved to have the horrors that we see throughout our world but I can't fathom the idea of a God creating a plan that ultimately brings forth what we know exists.

The "it's Satan's fault" doesn't work for me... (supposedly) God came up with the plan and knew how it would play out.

I just can't see the goodness in the "Plan."

~td~

[_silentkid]

The only type of god that I could believe in at this point is a god that put this whole thing in motion and then stepped away, never to intervene. This would, in essence, make it responsible for everything, including evil, but in a way I can understand (you started this mess so you're responsible for it). Anything else doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. The fickle, intervening god of Christianity is simply too erratic for me to take seriously.

[_LifeOnaPlate]

Maybe God isn't omnipotent in the classic theological sense. Maybe God isn't omnipotent in that regard.

http://speeches.BYU.edu/reader/reader.php?id=1644
http://www.blakeostler.com/docs/JSmith& ... ofEvil.pdf

[_Doctor Steuss]

in my opinion, Process Philosophy helps reconcile some of the issues (although many tend to shun some of the implications of Open Theism). There was a time in the ANE (prior to those young-man-loving-toga-wearing-deep-thinkers) when the “all” of G-d’s “all-knowingness” and “all-powerfulness” was not unequivocal. It tended to have limitations (although some within the Old Testament think-tank tend to attribute it to self-limitation instead of an outside and/or inherent limitation).

In the end, deep contemplation of the “Problem of Evil” tends to make me want to retreat to my bedroom with a pint of Ben and Jerry’s and my vinyl Flaming Lips albums... and maybe a Seers catalogue.

[_cksalmon]

The Bible clearly and repeatedly teaches that God is the ultimate author of evil.

I believe it is illogical to reject or attempt to palliate this fact.

Some folks feel they need to deny this clear teaching (because it is unnerving); others find they must reject belief in a god who would allow/condone/decree evil (because it is unpalatable); still others believe that a sovereign God does whatever he wishes in the heavens and the earth. And that everything he does is for his own glory and good pleasure.

[_silentkid]

in my opinion, Process Philosophy helps reconcile some of the issues (although many tend to shun some of the implications of Open Theism). There was a time in the ANE (prior to those young-man-loving-toga-wearing-deep-thinkers) when the “all” of God’s “all-knowingness” and “all-powerfulness” was not unequivocal. It tended to have limitations (although some within the Old Testament think-tank tend to attribute it to self-limitation instead of an outside and/or inherent limitation).

I understand that Mormon theology allows for a limited God as well, a God that is not completely omniscient and not completely omnipotent (and obviously not omnipresent because he has a body...the holy ghost has the omnipresent characteristic). But how limited is he in knowledge and in power? Is he only limited in the sense that we limit him based on our current understanding of the natural world? Will those limits change as our knowledge increases? I haven't read the links that LOAP provided...I'll give those a gander and see if they address this.

[_KimberlyAnn]

Maybe God isn't omnipotent in the classic theological sense. Maybe God isn't omnipotent in that regard.

http://speeches.BYU.edu/reader/reader.php?id=1644
http://www.blakeostler.com/docs/JSmith& ... ofEvil.pdf

If you believe the Bible to be the Word of God, then you've got a problem.

The Bible is abundantly clear that God is omnipotent in every sense. He knows the beginning from the end. He has numbered the hairs on your head (not a hard job in your case...:P). He created the world and everything in it. He created the devil, with complete foreknowledge of what would transpire because of that creation.

God not only knows, but declares the end from the beginning:

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: --Isaiah 46:10

God, therefore, by declaring the end from the beginning, and being alone responsible for all of creation, is responsible for evil. There is no other option if one believes the Bible to be the word of God. It is clear from the Bible as a whole that God created evil, and while He perhaps doesn't condone every evil act, He nevertheless allows them when He could stop them. God either causes evil Himself, which is made clear in the Bible, or He allows it for His own mysterious purposes.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
—Isaiah 45:7

KA

[_Jersey Girl]

KA,

That last from Isaiah doesn't wash for this topic.

[_KimberlyAnn]

in my opinion, Process Philosophy helps reconcile some of the issues (although many tend to shun some of the implications of Open Theism). There was a time in the ANE (prior to those young-man-loving-toga-wearing-deep-thinkers) when the “all” of God’s “all-knowingness” and “all-powerfulness” was not unequivocal. It tended to have limitations (although some within the Old Testament think-tank tend to attribute it to self-limitation instead of an outside and/or inherent limitation).

I understand that Mormon theology allows for a limited God as well, a God that is not completely omniscient and not completely omnipotent (and obviously not omnipresent because he has a body...the holy ghost has the omnipresent characteristic). But how limited is he in knowledge and in power? Is he only limited in the sense that we limit him based on our current understanding of the natural world? Will those limits change as our knowledge increases? I haven't read the links that LOAP provided...I'll give those a gander and see if they address this.

To me, Mormonism isn't off the hook, here. They have a lot of reconciling to do with certain Bible verses, which they believe to be the Word of God.

Also, their God may be one God in a long lineage of many Gods, but still, there had to be a first God who made the rules, does there not? He determined the system? Decided there had to be both good and evil and all subsequent men who eventually became Gods necessarily maintained the same pattern?

To believe that God didn't create evil, and it exists completely apart from Him, means that God doesn't have control over evil at all! That He is helpless in the face of the smallest matter to the greatest tragedy. He cannot control that which exists independently from Him and that which He didn't create. Evil could overcome good, in a permanent sense.

I just don't see any way around it. God is responsible for evil.

KA