Credibility of "Prophets"

[_moksha]

Why would one need to bash the downtrodden to show one's conservatism? I don't understand this statement. Could you provide an example.

I thought I did with the reference to the conservative talking point regarding welfare recipients.

Your point is valid about some sore spots for the Church coming not from revelation but rather personal opinion or collective prejudices. I would only add that over time, past mistakes have been and most likely will continue to be corrected.

[_Mad Viking]

I thought I did with the reference to the conservative talking point regarding welfare recipients.

I see. You are referring to contemporary conservatism. I have always been under the impression that in these cases conservatives are complaining about abuses of the welfare system. They are not bashing the downtrodden per se, but those individuals who abuse the welfare system, who happen to be downtrodden. Regardless, I fail to see the parallels between current conservatives complaints about abuse of the welfare system by some of the downtrodden and Brigham Young’s opinions about the customs, intelligence, and status with regard to his God of the black race. He really could have kept his offensive opinions to himself. His comments had everything to do with how he viewed his God feeling about some of his (god’s) children. He believed that the supposed inferior position of the black race in every way was the will of his God based on the feelings of his God toward this segment of his supposed children. His comments had everything to do with doctrinal matters despite them not being canonized. To me, this is no small matter.

Your point is valid about some sore spots for the Church coming not from revelation but rather personal opinion or collective prejudices. I would only add that over time, past mistakes have been and most likely will continue to be corrected.

The obvious implication being, considering current affairs, that at some point the contemporary leaders’ positions with regard to gay marriage may be dismissed as mere opinion? For me, this begs the question of the actuality of their communications with some sort of higher power. Why not get some clarity on such matters. Joseph supposedly got a revelation to settle an argument between him and Oliver about whether or not John was still alive. Certainly these matters deserve divine guidance.

In fact, LDS members should consider the position of the leaders of the church with regard to gay marriage mere opinion until a revelation is produced and canonized based on the past track record.

[_Roger Morrison]

Coincidence: I was musing about instructions of the past & the present, re "Marriage & Parenting" on my Blog this morning. Rather than suggest anyone go to it, pasted below, what I think is somewhat pertinent:

With so much having been written in the past, "to multiply..." how can those ignorances of our by-gone days be errased? They can't. The only solution is to, "...listen to a better informed, more enlightened, "living Prophet."

And who might that be? How about one who has spent their life studying and working in the field of Humanities and Behavioral sciences? Psychology, child developement, genetics, etcs...

Maybe a guy like:::::::::::::: "DR. Phil"... He's more than a part-time Prophet. He's a full-time professional... :-)

I think this is a very timely topic. One that will inevitably be faced with candor by Mormon Leaders. AND, I think those leaders, from different eras, and experience with open honest communications, will not view "Internet Mormons" with the distain that many now, irresponsibly do... IMSCO :-)

Roger

[_moksha]

[

In fact, LDS members should consider the position of the leaders of the church with regard to gay marriage mere opinion until a revelation is produced and canonized based on the past track record.

Even this would presuppose that God has actually taken a position against gay marriage. If not, then the well of revelation would be dry, would it not?

[_Mad Viking]

In fact, LDS members should consider the position of the leaders of the church with regard to gay marriage mere opinion until a revelation is produced and canonized based on the past track record.

Even this would presuppose that God has actually taken a position against gay marriage. If not, then the well of revelation would be dry, would it not?

I began to suspect that when my wife was frantic to remove her second set of ear peircings.

[_Wheat]

I hear this over and over and over and over __ exmos informing us what we think and believe. It drives me crazy __ because it’s bull.

Whether or not there is a basis for the distinctions being made between so-called *internet* Mormons and *chapel* Mormons, I’m not sure. Sometimes I think the only difference is that the *internet* Mormons are more careful than the *chapel* Mormons to say in public all the things they really do believe. In other words, the *internet* Mormons are just more prudent when it comes to acknowledging the fact that they believe in miracles and other more traditional interpretations like a global flood, etc.

I think I’m a 100% orthodox chapel Mormon in almost every way I can imagine. And the folks I have known in the various wards and stakes I’ve lived in are, with some exceptions, pretty much just like me. And noen of us would agree with this statement:

This whole concept of fallible prophets is a fairly new, and internet only phenomenon. If you were to walk up to your average church going LDS and say that prophets can and do make mistakes and not to trust what they say, that would be tantamount to blasphemy in their eyes.

Believe me, I've had this conversation multiple times with chapel Mormons and they most certainly do not believe that prophets are fallible. They honestly believe that God speaks to them, and they are led in everything they say.

It totally flies in the face of the often emphasized principal that it is not meet that I should command in all things …

I realize that there is absolutly nothing I can say to convince the folks here on this board that this is just bull, but I know it is. I don’t believe it and I don’t know anyone who does believe it. I don’t doubt that there a few people in any ward or stake that think like that, but they are a miniscule minority. Most people recognize that prophets, apostles, and the like are just ordinary men doing their best to be sensitive to the prompting of the spirit as they attempt to conduct the affairs of the church. they arent commanded in all things. They aren’t *led in everything they say.* They don’t have weekly meetings with God and discuss the affairs of the church with Him face to face. they just try to do their best by living in such a way that the Holy Ghost can effectively inspire them to dothe will of God. And from time to time __ maybe only once or twice every generation __ one or more of them is the recipient of a major revelation on something relevant to the times. I consider the Proclamation on the Family to be of that nature. To me, it is scripture. It is the word of God. It was inspired of God.

the only people I know who think the way scottie talks about above are people who have long-since left the church. Or at least they claim that’s the way they used to think when they were still in the church.

[Guest]

Most people recognize that prophets, apostles, and the like are just ordinary men doing their best to be sensitive to the prompting of the spirit as they attempt to conduct the affairs of the church... they just try to do their best by living in such a way that the Holy Ghost can effectively inspire them to do the will of God...

Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.

After reading it again, I can see what you mean. He was just doing the best that he could.

Apparently BY couldn't even tell the difference between his own opinion and the law of God. Why should a current prophet be any different?

[_Mad Viking]

...from time to time __ maybe only once or twice every generation __ one or more of them is the recipient of a major revelation on something relevant to the times. I consider the Proclamation on the Family to be of that nature. To me, it is scripture. It is the word of God. It was inspired of God.

I wonder how many Mormons felt the same way about Brigham's statements about race mixing or Adam-God. Hmmm...

[_Master Bates]

As a missionary for the Mormon church, following the discussions word for word (as we memorized them), we taught that Christ is the head of the church, and the prophet talks to him. That it why it is Christ's church, a "living" church - because the prophet communicates with God. That is how the truth was restored - the heavens were opened again and prophets communed with God once again. The prophet receives revelations from God - not just impressions of the spirit.

This is what we have always taught; that is what everyone believes. That is what sets the LDS church apart from all the other churches on the earth.

To try and backtrack now and say that the prophet is just a regular guy with an important calling who tries to "feel the spirit" and just do the best he can - is re-writing history and doctrine.

[_Dr. Shades]

I hear this over and over and over and over __ exmos informing us what we think and believe. It drives me crazy __ because it’s bull.

No ex-Mormon is telling you what you think and believe. Ex-Mormons are simply compiling the things that you have said you think and believe--it's not our fault that you contradict yourselves so often.

Whether or not there is a basis for the distinctions being made between so-called *internet* Mormons and *chapel* Mormons, I’m not sure. Sometimes I think the only difference is that the *internet* Mormons are more careful than the *chapel* Mormons to say in public all the things they really do believe. In other words, the *internet* Mormons are just more prudent when it comes to acknowledging the fact that they believe in miracles and other more traditional interpretations like a global flood, etc.

Was God once a man, Wheat?