Fake Book of Mormon Geography -- holes in the script

[Shulem]

was moroni's trek to ny with 50-100 lbs of plates,about 1900 miles a record for that century?

It never happened. It was Smith's wild fantasy and dream he conjured up while under a hypnotic storytelling state of mind. There were no gold plates. It was all a lie -- a pretended fantasy they made good of. But people today need to have fantastic things to believe in and they substantiate nonsense entirely on the principle of faith, which is used to swallow their religious poisons.

[Shulem]

23 And it came to pass that after we had sailed for the space of many days we did arrive at the promised land

Hundreds of years later, another character in Smith's story by the name of Mormon describes foolish sailors on a voyage who fail to keep track of their business as if they are like waves on the sea, driven and tossed, and fail to keep track of their time!

18 But now, behold, they are led about by Satan, even as chaff is driven before the wind, or as a vessel is tossed about upon the waves, without sail or anchor, or without anything wherewith to steer her; and even as she is, so are they.

As was Nephi who was driven before the wind, or as a vessel is tossed about upon the waves, without sail or anchor, or without anything wherewith to steer her other than a broken magic compass; and even as they were, they had no idea how long it took to sail to the promised land!

The utterly shameful recordkeeping of Nephi!

[Shulem]

The Lost 116 Pages tells us exactly how many days it took Lehi to sail to America.

[Shulem]

28 And thirty years had passed away from the time we left Jerusalem.

29 And I, Nephi, had kept the records upon my plates, which I had made, of my people thus far.

34 And it sufficeth me to say that forty years had passed away, and we had already had wars and contentions with our brethren.

Gotcha!

How would you know it had been "thirty and "forty" years since the time you left Jerusalem? Your precious plates don't record the required information to pinpoint an anniversary and you have failed to keep track of time. You failed to record how long the voyage was and your journey away from your older brethren when you took off into the wilderness. And now you tell us that it's been 30 and 40 years since you left Jerusalem? Give us a freaking break, Nephi!

Holes in the script!!

[Shulem]

How would you know it had been "thirty and "forty" years since the time you left Jerusalem? Your precious plates don't record the required information to pinpoint an anniversary and you have failed to keep track of time. You failed to record how long the voyage was and your journey away from your older brethren when you took off into the wilderness. And now you tell us that it's been 30 and 40 years since you left Jerusalem? Give us a freaking break, Nephi!

Defenders of the Book of Mormon will happily fall back on the unsubstantiated theory that the number of days for the sea voyage was recorded in Smith's first translation of Lehi's account consisting of the 116 lost pages. They'll assert that Smith's replacement contained everything it needed to tell the story and the chronology was maintained in the whole of the record. Defenders can assert the same thing for the missing time link for when Nephi separated himself from his elder brethren. They will just say, "It was all there."

But in light of all that, defenders are stuck having to wonder why Nephi didn't mention the duration of time for the voyage when a simple answer in days would have been easier and more resolute than the one Smith penned. The number of days aboard that ship was for all intents and purposes a sacred journey entailing fear, faith, trial and the very threat of dying at sea. It's simply unthinkable and unreasonable to assume that Nephi failed to tell the number and Smith was quite content with that failure -- for obvious reasons, stated earlier in this thread.

[Lem]

So what happened to those missing pages?

I suppose they could have gone into the fireplace but why? Did someone want to make a do over, a new start?

There is no telling for sure what became of the Lost 116 pages (Wikipedia). It's not outside the realm of possibility, the entire manuscript or a part thereof may surface someday, having been stored up and long forgotten in someone's attic or between old book covers. Wouldn't that be Mormonism's worst nightmare!

There is no question or doubt in my mind that the original manuscript recorded a number for the days of voyage. Absolutely none! I would love to get my hand's on that manuscript. Oh the damage that could be done to Mormonism and it would be so delicious watching Mormons squirm like worms just as they did with the lost papyrus for the Book of Abraham.

See also Lucy Harris (Wikipedia)

Following your link, I found this little gift:

Author Christopher Hitchens references Harris's theft of the first hundred and sixteen pages of Smith's manuscript and her challenge to him to reproduce them in his 2007 book God is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, saying,

"Determined women like this appear far too seldom in the history of religion."

[Shulem]

God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything:

"Four years later Smith claimed to obtain gold tablets containing the Book of Mormon. When the neighbor's skeptical wife buried 116 pages of the translation and challenged Smith to reproduce it, Smith claimed God, knowing this would happen, told him to instead translate a different section of the same plates."

[Shulem]

Okay, it's time to move on seeing that I've beaten this particular horse to death and I've definitely made my point in showing that Smith was constrained to withold key information involving the internal Nephite calendar because his story might well not have matched the original that was secreted away by Lucy Harris. Defenders of the Book of Mormon are forced to rely on yet another level of faith that all remains well and good within the Book of Mormon dating system -- thus, keep the faith because in the end that's all they have, faith.

1 Nephi 18:23-25 provides information about the original colonization of Lehi's family in the new world whereby Nephi and his brethren worked jointly in building a new civilization which failed due to political reason and strife. A look at logistics is as follows:

• Original Nephite landing
• Pitch tents and plant crops
• Expedition into the wilderness revealed animals of all kinds in the forests
• All manner of ore is found

Note this includes gold, and of silver, and of copper. Also, the cow and the ox, and the ass and the horse, and the goat and the wild goat.

This incredible expedition so close to the coast and within the realm of the wilderness and forests around about is absolutely so stunningly fantastic that it's simply beyond my belief. So many problems counter this original Nephite claim that it ultimately becomes a swampy mire of apologetic foolishness layered with layers of every excuse one can imagine that it's obvious the book is pure fiction not grounded in reality or, historical fact.

And so, the Nephites departed with what they had on hand to begin anew. What will we find?

Hmmmm. Let's see.

[Shulem]

Ok, moving forward, now.

2 Nephi 5:5-16 provides details of Nephite industry and construction in their new land away from Lehi's original landing. The undertaking of what they claim to accomplish is outside the bounds of credibility whereby their main and only focus would have been to raise food, keep warm and maintain shelter and clothes, and administer any and all forms of natural remedies to counter the extreme conditions of living in the great outdoors. First aid and medical attention would always be the first priority or death by infection or inability to work would surely result.

• Nephi flees from the original land of inheritance
• New Nephite land
• Sow seed and harvest in abundance
• Raise flocks and herds
• Forge swords
• Build buildings
• Work with iron, copper, brass, steel, gold, silver, and precious ores
• Construct a temple patterned after Solomon’s temple


And so, Nephi, his righteous brethren, and their little band of families have set out to build a new world. I want to take a little look at this world and see if it really makes sense to me. I want to see if it's possible to actually believe this silly story -- or tale.

[Shulem]

I think it would be helpful to list things contained in chapter five in order to arrange them and analyze the data based on what I mentioned in my previous posts. The entire compliment consisted of Nephi and his family, Zoram and his family, Sam and his family, Nephi's younger brothers Jacob and Joseph, Nephi's sisters, and anyone else who left Laman & Lemuel to go with Nephi such as members of Ishmael's family.

The above is the entire compliment in which to build this new civilization called the people of Nephi, to include performing the following in consecutive order:

10 And we did observe to keep the judgments, and the statutes, and the commandments of the Lord in all things, according to the law of Moses.

11 And the Lord was with us; and we did prosper exceedingly; for we did sow seed, and we did reap again in abundance. And we began to raise flocks, and herds, and animals of every kind.

12 And I, Nephi, had also brought the records which were engraven upon the plates of brass; and also the ball, or compass, which was prepared for my father by the hand of the Lord, according to that which is written.

13 And it came to pass that we began to prosper exceedingly, and to multiply in the land.

14 And I, Nephi, did take the sword of Laban, and after the manner of it did make many swords, lest by any means the people who were now called Lamanites should come upon us and destroy us; for I knew their hatred towards me and my children and those who were called my people.

15 And I did teach my people to build buildings, and to work in all manner of wood, and of iron, and of copper, and of brass, and of steel, and of gold, and of silver, and of precious ores, which were in great abundance.

16 And I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon save it were not built of so many precious things; for they were not to be found upon the land, wherefore, it could not be built like unto Solomon’s temple. But the manner of the construction was like unto the temple of Solomon; and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine.