How important is peer review? How reliable?

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_Mister Scratch
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Re: How important is peer review? How reliable?

Post by _Mister Scratch »

JustMe wrote:beastie
Good luck on getting an answer. I've already tried, to no avail. One thing is already becoming clear about justme - he's a font of excuses for why he won't engage in discussions about actual substance.


Until you do what you expect we Mormons to do, publish in bona fide peer reviewed scholarly and scientific journals for credibility and reality, there is no reason to take anything you write seriously.


This is a problematic claim, since some articles in FARMS Review, such as J. Tvedtnes's review of Dr. Shades's site, and DCP's "The Witchcraft Paradigm," dealt with online writings and were, by all appearances, "taken seriously"---seriously enough, that is, to merit comment in FROB.

As a critic once asked me - "If you really believed you had something significant why are you hesitating to publish it after peer review and prove you have faith in what you write?" If I am a font of excuses as you claim, it is only due to my taking seriously the standard your kind of folks against Mormonism have raised, and now applying it back onto you. Until you get rid of the ridiculousness of that standard, you are just going to have to live by it, at least as far as I am concerned. IT SUCKS DON'T IT?


Now, this isn't correct at all. Nothing of a frankly LDS nature has ever, ever been published in a scientific, peer-reviewed journal. Nothing. Not a single thing. Instead, the "scholarly journals" you're referring to consist of junk like FARMS Review, which is not real scholarship in any meaningful sense.

There is another problem as well. DCP once admitted that he is "embarrassed" about expressing his scientific beliefs in pre-Columbian horses, the correct translation of the Book of Abraham, Lamanite DNA, and so forth in secular, academic settings. I think what the critic you described was actually asking was, "Have you ever tested your theories against rigorous, academic peer review?" Yes: to a certain extent you are right to feel this is baiting. Obviously, not a single controversial, frankly LDS article has ever, *EVER* appeared in a scholarly, peer-reviewed journal. So, in reality, what this critic was asking you was, "Have you ever submitted your writings and got rejected?" Because there are really only two realities:

1) LDS scholars have been submitting tons of stuff, all of which has gotten rejected, OR:
2) LDS scholars are too afraid/embarrassed to submit their writings, and thus they have been avoiding peer review.

Of course, if you contrive your own means of peer review, you can avoid all of this, all while maintaining the false patina of credibility, which is precisely what FARMS has accomplished.
_JustMe
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Re: How important is peer review? How reliable?

Post by _JustMe »

Scratch
Now, this isn't correct at all. Nothing of a frankly LDS nature has ever, ever been published in a scientific, peer-reviewed journal. Nothing. Not a single thing. Instead, the "scholarly journals" you're referring to consist of junk like FARMS Review, which is not real scholarship in any meaningful sense.


Gosh thanks! I would have never known! Your wisdom is beyond compare.

There is another problem as well. DCP once admitted that he is "embarrassed" about expressing his scientific beliefs in pre-Columbian horses, the correct translation of the Book of Abraham, Lamanite DNA, and so forth in secular, academic settings. I think what the critic you described was actually asking was, "Have you ever tested your theories against rigorous, academic peer review?" Yes: to a certain extent you are right to feel this is baiting. Obviously, not a single controversial, frankly LDS article has ever, *EVER* appeared in a scholarly, peer-reviewed journal. So, in reality, what this critic was asking you was, "Have you ever submitted your writings and got rejected?" Because there are really only two realities:

1) LDS scholars have been submitting tons of stuff, all of which has gotten rejected, OR:
2) LDS scholars are too afraid/embarrassed to submit their writings, and thus they have been avoiding peer review.


Wow......... such a fecund wisdom and keen intellectual understanding of absolutely reality as it relates to both Mormonism and FARMS. How did you get all this man? When I grow up, I want to be just like you!

Of course, if you contrive your own means of peer review, you can avoid all of this, all while maintaining the false patina of credibility, which is precisely what FARMS has accomplished.


HEY! Man I never woulda thunk that route. Thanks for the suggestion! May I use your name for the full credit ofthis brilliant stroke?
_Mister Scratch
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Re: How important is peer review? How reliable?

Post by _Mister Scratch »

JustMe wrote:Scratch
Now, this isn't correct at all. Nothing of a frankly LDS nature has ever, ever been published in a scientific, peer-reviewed journal. Nothing. Not a single thing. Instead, the "scholarly journals" you're referring to consist of junk like FARMS Review, which is not real scholarship in any meaningful sense.


Gosh thanks! I would have never known! Your wisdom is beyond compare.


JustMe---

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but were you not trying, in an earlier post, to describe the relevance and usefulness of peer review? If so, could you point me to one, just *ONE* little example that contradicts my claim?

There is another problem as well. DCP once admitted that he is "embarrassed" about expressing his scientific beliefs in pre-Columbian horses, the correct translation of the Book of Abraham, Lamanite DNA, and so forth in secular, academic settings. I think what the critic you described was actually asking was, "Have you ever tested your theories against rigorous, academic peer review?" Yes: to a certain extent you are right to feel this is baiting. Obviously, not a single controversial, frankly LDS article has ever, *EVER* appeared in a scholarly, peer-reviewed journal. So, in reality, what this critic was asking you was, "Have you ever submitted your writings and got rejected?" Because there are really only two realities:

1) LDS scholars have been submitting tons of stuff, all of which has gotten rejected, OR:
2) LDS scholars are too afraid/embarrassed to submit their writings, and thus they have been avoiding peer review.


Wow......... such a fecund wisdom and keen intellectual understanding of absolutely reality as it relates to both Mormonism and FARMS. How did you get all this man? When I grow up, I want to be just like you!


Which of the two do you think is more correct? Or, are you willing to posit a third possibility?

Of course, if you contrive your own means of peer review, you can avoid all of this, all while maintaining the false patina of credibility, which is precisely what FARMS has accomplished.


HEY! Man I never woulda thunk that route. Thanks for the suggestion! May I use your name for the full credit ofthis brilliant stroke?


Sure.
_JustMe
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Re: How important is peer review? How reliable?

Post by _JustMe »

Scratch
Which of the two do you think is more correct? Or, are you willing to posit a third possibility


There is a third possibility, but you won't like it. It has no place within your paradigm. And I'd really, really hate to interupt your favorite version of reality, so I shall fall on the side of mercy and just forego saying it.
_Mister Scratch
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Re: How important is peer review? How reliable?

Post by _Mister Scratch »

JustMe wrote:Scratch
Which of the two do you think is more correct? Or, are you willing to posit a third possibility


There is a third possibility, but you won't like it. It has no place within your paradigm. And I'd really, really hate to interupt your favorite version of reality, so I shall fall on the side of mercy and just forego saying it.


Come now, JustMe. I am an open-minded individual. If you have a rational, logically-supportable third option, I'd be delighted to hear it. If you can explain why LDS "scholarship" has failed to penetrate the mainstream of academia, I would be truly astonished and delighted to hear it.
_JustMe
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Re: How important is peer review? How reliable?

Post by _JustMe »

Scratch
Come now, JustMe. I am an open-minded individual. If you have a rational, logically-supportable third option, I'd be delighted to hear it.


O.K....... O.K. now, lessee (puts his glasses on cause this means, by gum, he's serious now!)..... um, well the particular quantum aspect of Alain shows him arising from sleep too late to be very effective.......er wait.....wrong subject, that's animal husbandry.... hee, hee........ Um, lemmeesee here....... rational eh? Logical? Shucks I wonder why the moon isn't made with Mayonnaise........ er uh, I gotta focus man.......... oh dang.......DANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't do it Scratch! I just can't do it I tells ya! (sobs)....... I didn't mean ta fail (SOBS louder!)....... I just don't have the brain you do for that powerful ogic Scratches........ I CAN'T SUCCEED!!!!!!! (weeping uncontrollably now, the poor sap, is tears in everyone's eyes who are reading the account of poor Justme's miserable failure here in public?!?)

If you can explain why LDS "scholarship" has failed to penetrate the mainstream of academia, I would be truly astonished and delighted to hear


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (bitter and miserable tears from a failing Justme as he ralizes the inevitable inability of his skills and prowess to even come up with such an simpleton task as Scratch so gracefully, so full of niceness and gentle brotherly love has asked). I'm so SORRRRRRRRY!!!!!!! I CANNOT. I CANNOT. I fail unto thee dearest Horatio! "Throw this slave upon the dunghill!" (King Lear, 3.7. 95-96). If this poor schmuck can't accomplish the simpleton's task and gentleman's question which Scratch hath so graciously and gracefully bestowed, at least he can quoth Shakespeare, by golly! "Out Dunghill!"
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: How important is peer review? How reliable?

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Peer review is helpful to an editor, but it's not magical.

I offered some thoughts on peer review and the Maxwell Institute (or FARMS) in my Editor's Introduction to FARMS Review 18/2 (2006), entitled "The Witchcraft Paradigm: On Claims to 'Second Sight' by People Who Say It Doesn't Exist":

http://farms.BYU.edu/publications/revie ... m=2&id=621
_Gadianton
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Re: How important is peer review? How reliable?

Post by _Gadianton »

Well, Mister Scratch, you asked a timely question in a very respectful and sincere way but it doesn't look like you're going to get an answer. I'm hoping JustMe really hasn't gone over the edge and is playing around.

I guess absent even an attempt to answer, I'll have to chalk up another win for Scratch.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: How important is peer review? How reliable?

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Gadianton wrote:I'll have to chalk up another win for Scratch.

Has he won something before?

Really?

I'm guessing it was "Miss Congeniality."

Do I get a free Slurpee or something?
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: How important is peer review? How reliable?

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Mister Scratch wrote:DCP once admitted that he is "embarrassed" about expressing his scientific beliefs in pre-Columbian horses, the correct translation of the Book of Abraham, Lamanite DNA, and so forth in secular, academic settings.

I've said no such thing.

Is this another win for Scartch? Another watershed moment in the history of Mopologetics?
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