Last Days and World Crisis

[_antishock8]

I grew up with parents that thought the Last Days were just around the corner. Stockpiles of grain and fresh water. Gold and silver coins horded for trade. Food gardens being grown, etc... My parents grew up with parents who thought the Last Days were just around the corner. My grandparents grew up with people who thought the Last Days were just around the corner. Same with their parents. So on and so forth...

It's not new to the human condition, or to the Christian tradition to think this. It's a shame, really.

[_Jason Bourne]

It could be argued that some of the events of last week have moved us toward Socialism...

It could be argued but it would be a silly argument. This is not the first time in US history the government has stepped in to bail out ailing industries. They did it for Chrysler, they did it for the airlines, they do it with tax law for certain targeted industries and charities and for home buyer and so on. Nixon had price and wage freezes in affect. During the depression there were all sorts of government programs. Really to a certain extent all governments use some forms Old Testament socialistic programs. The US has and will at times.

By the way I do not think we are in crisis. We have a bit of a fever but not crisis at all. Think back the the late 70s and early 80s. That was more crisis. Think of the S&L failures inthe late 80s. That dwarfs what is going on now. And you know what caused that? A Change in tax law that was favorable for real estate investing and then it became hostile to real estate. S&Ls were heavy into real estate and thousands of them failed. S&Ls no longer exist as a result.

And, what do you think our government (or for believers, the LDS church) must do to help us out of the crisis?

I am ok with some of the low interest rate loans they have made but I would not have cried if they had not made them nor do I think it would have put the economy into a tail spin. I think they did it just to calm down Wall Street and jittery investors.

What do you think is ahead?

I think we will continue with an economic down turn for about 12 more months and then we will see the cylce start to move upwards again.

Have the recent events altered your personal life?

\
Not really other than my 401k is down about 15% for the year. Oh and I am more motivated to pay all my debt off.

And, in light of all that is going on in the world, I find the LDS church's unequaled obsession with Prop 8 silly.

That we pretty random. You think the LDS Church should be involved in economic policy perhaps? Really they it is not mutually exclusive of other things for the LDS Church to be concerned about Prop 8. They can do that as well as many other things as well.

[_harmony]

We have a bit of a fever but not crisis at all. Think back the the late 70s and early 80s. That was more crisis.

I remember that well. We lost our family farm in that mess, and it took years for my credit score to recover.

[_moksha]

the 666 stuff.

Wasn't this the original amount (666 billion) that the Bush Administration recommended for the big mortgage bailout?

Let's hope a Republican administration is not around to provide lack of oversight on how this whopping corporate welfare is spent.

[_christopher]

By the way I do not think we are in crisis. We have a bit of a fever but not crisis at all. Think back the the late 70s and early 80s. That was more crisis. Think of the S&L failures inthe late 80s. That dwarfs what is going on now.

I don't have the figures in front me, but I don't think you are at all correct here. If memory serves me the S&L failures only ran to a total of 200 billion in total losses. That's a drop in the bucket to what is happening (my belief is we will hit 2 trillion before this is over).

[_harmony]

If this current fever/crisis plays out to a catastrophic end, what would that look like to the average person?

Would gas go over $10 a gallon?

Would unemployment hit 30%?

Would banks crash?

Would the government fall?

Would we all go back to rotary dial phones, have to wear our shoes until the soles were paper thin, lose our homes and have to live with our extended families, grow our own vegetables, butcher our own meat, make our own soap, and *gasp* give up our computers?

[_christopher]

If this current fever/crisis plays out to a catastrophic end, what would that look like to the average person?

Would gas go over $10 a gallon?

No, because demand verses supply would stop the rise

Would unemployment hit 30%?

Very possible

Would banks crash?

Absolutely, but then replaced by others.

Would the government fall?

Yes, in it's current form. I could then see some form of martial law for a period of time.

[_Jason Bourne]

By the way I do not think we are in crisis. We have a bit of a fever but not crisis at all. Think back the the late 70s and early 80s. That was more crisis. Think of the S&L failures inthe late 80s. That dwarfs what is going on now.

I don't have the figures in front me, but I don't think you are at all correct here. If memory serves me the S&L failures only ran to a total of 200 billion in total losses. That's a drop in the bucket to what is happening (my belief is we will hit 2 trillion before this is over).

200 billion in 1980's dollars is probably about 400 billion today. But I remember about 500-600 billion. Keep in mind that money that is being used in this case are loans as well as assets bought at a discount that may be able to be later sold at a profit. This is not a fork over of dollars never to be returned. The S&L crisis was never to be see again losses. Keep in mind in 1988-1989 over 1000 S&Ls failed. 1000!!!!!

So now I am curious as to where you get the 2 trillion number?

[_Yong Xi]

200 billion in 1980's dollars is probably about 400 billion today. But I remember about 500-600 billion. Keep in mind that money that is being used in this case are loans as well as assets bought at a discount that may be able to be later sold at a profit. This is not a fork over of dollars never to be returned. The S&L crisis was never to be see again losses. Keep in mind in 1988-1989 over 1000 S&Ls failed. 1000!!!!!

So now I am curious as to where you get the 2 trillion number?

for what it's worth, Wiki suggests 750 or so failed thrifts costing the American taxpayer 125 million. This is after the fact known cost as opposed to the current crisis. It will be several years before we know the cost of this bailout.

One of the troubling aspects of this bailout is the figure of 700 billion dollars to buy troubled assets. In actuality, the amount of assets that will be purchased may far exceed 700 billion. The bailout actually calls for a maximum amount of 700 billion at any one time. Theoretically, a trillion dollars or more of troubled assets may be purchased over time.
It remains to be seen what the net amount will be. The interest alone on loans, bad asset purchases and infusion into Fannie/Freddie will be substantial.

[_harmony]

Would unemployment hit 30%?

Very possible

You're kidding, right?

Would the government fall?

Yes, in it's current form. I could then see some form of martial law for a period of time.

You're kidding again, right?