by the way, Kerry, this statement of Clark's from his BYU devotional that became the article you mentioned:
The logical challenges with the first assertion, that no cities have been located, are more subtle. Book of Mormon cities have been found, they are well known, and their artifacts grace the finest museums. They are merely masked by archaeological labels such as “Maya,” “Olmec,” and so on. The problem, then, is not that Book of Mormon artifacts have not been found, only that they have not been recognized for what they are. Again, if you stumbled onto Zarahemla, how would you know?
demonstrates my point. Clark is telling us that we couldn't recognize a Book of Mormon city even if we found it. He's telling us not to look for the Book of Mormon in Mesoamerica. He's telling us to look for Mesoamerica in the Book of Mormon.
If he has the slightest hope of ever discovering evidence of a Judeo-Christian culture in Mesoamerica, why would this be his approach? (Brant Gardner's approach as well)
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
Interesting points beastie. Thank you for being patient with me, I have not read your threads, but I will. I haven't been inhabiting message boards as much as I used to in the past. I am behind, but I will try and catch up. Just be patient with me, thanks. I am seriously not trying to be deliberately obnoxious, I am just learning as we all are trying to do.
beastie wrote:No problem, Kerry. As far as I'm concerned, you're a genuinely nice guy, and always have been. I appreciate your honesty.
I don't always agree with you, but I do, and I'm serious, I do appreciate and admire your willingness to look into things for yourself, and read the scholarship, and so on and so forth. usw they say in German - GRIN! Soooooo, anyway, I will try and get to some of your threads this weekend. Gotta lotta winterizing to do around my house (chop wood, clean chimney, break a sweat - LOL!)
Thanks, Kerry, and I mean that sincerely. Brant, and Clark (in my email correspondence with him) also have acknowledged the fact that I have done a good job educating myself on ancient Mesoamerica. Years ago, in a discussion with Brant, he pointed out that, generally speaking, critics don’t have adequate background knowledge of ancient Mesoamerica to fairly judge whether or not the Book of Mormon could have taken place there. I realized he was right, and that’s why I started reading about the topic. Then I “fell in love”, in a way, with the Maya and began to read obsessively about them out of curiosity and enjoyment. Whether or not we can ever agree on the Book of Mormon, I do appreciate your willingness to recognize my self-education on the topic.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
JustMe wrote:In light of thatcomment, what makes you even pretend to know that any new discovery will be accepted, learned about, and understood? Coe has shown in many, many places the sheer bias, the utter inept stupidity of the very scientists who are supposed to be teaching us about the Maya. And your claiming we know a whole lot about them. Now who am I going tobelieve here? You even claim his credentials are "impeccible." O.K. I can accept that. Why do you presume to lecture me about Mesoamerica, when it is obvious from my reading of Coe that the very experts you think teach us all about Mesoamerica are the most bias ones on earth?
Fair enough, JM, but what discovery does Mormonism bring to the table that should be incorporated into the academic discussion of Ancient America? What about the Book of Mormon has been overlooked simply because of bias and stupidity? What is actually verifiable to the point that it would substantively transform Ancient American Studies? It is one thing to say that scholars and scientists are human, but the fact that there are blind spots does not vindicate or establish the antiquity of the Book of Mormon. It seems to me that you are using the blind spots to hold open a "maybe" that is supported mostly by faith. Suggestive possibilities on their own would not be a reason to welcome the Book of Mormon into the family of evidences of Ancient American civilization.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”