Scratch, DCP, and the IRS

[_Jersey Girl]

Third time's a charm or so they say. Here are Daniels words and my comments in bold text.

I was never paid $20K so that I could function as chairman of the FARMS board. My department never received $20K so that I could serve as chairman of the FARMS board.

Twice he denies being compensated to function as Board Chair of FARMS.

My successor as chairman of the FARMS board was the dean of engineering. No money was ever transferred to his department or college so that he could be released to serve as chairman of the FARMS board. He continued to serve as dean of engineering while he was chairman of the FARMS board.

He gives an example that corresponds to the assertion that he was compensated to function as Board Chair of FARMS. His successor who also served as Board Chair of FARMS was NOT COMPENSATED.

What was then FARMS and is now the Maxwell Institute made an arrangement with my home department -- as is commonly done, at BYU and elsewhere, and as I have explained at least eight or ten different times -- so that I could edit and direct the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative. The Middle Eastern Texts Initiative has absolutely nothing to do with apologetics. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

Here is is spelling out what he WAS compensated for. He was compensated NOT to serve as Board Chair of FARMS. He was compensated to direct a specific project.

How much more clear could he get, Scratch?

[_Jersey Girl]

Here is the link to the 1998 Form 990 (with Schedule A) filed by FARMS (the Part VIII I'm referring to is on page 12 of the 20-page document):

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/1 ... 60-1-9.pdf

Are you talking about the Schedule of Grants & Allocations or the Compensation of Officers? I don't see a "Part VIII".

[_Daniel Peterson]

I was never paid $20K so that I could function as chairman of the FARMS board. My department never received $20K so that I could serve as chairman of the FARMS board.

What??? This totally contradicts what you've been saying! You have told us multiple times that BYU received the $20,000 as a kind of "buyout." Now you're changing your story?

Sigh.

The money was paid to my department so that I could direct the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative and edit the texts published by the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative.

Directing and editing the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative is entirely separate and distinct from serving as chairman of the board of FARMS. I directed and edited the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative before I served as chairman of the FARMS board. I've directed and edited the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative since serving as chairman of the FARMS board. Directing and editing the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative is entirely separate and distinct from serving as chairman of the board of FARMS.

My successor as chairman of the FARMS board was the dean of engineering. No money was ever transferred to his department or college so that he could be released to serve as chairman of the FARMS board. He continued to serve as dean of engineering while he was chairman of the FARMS board.

Again, you seem to be contradicting yourself.

Are you serious, or are you pulling our leg?

What was then FARMS and is now the Maxwell Institute made an arrangement with my home department -- as is commonly done, at BYU and elsewhere, and as I have explained at least eight or ten different times -- so that I could edit and direct the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative. The Middle Eastern Texts Initiative has absolutely nothing to do with apologetics. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

Well, did you also do Mopologetic administrating work, or did you write, or travel with Ed Snow, or otherwise do *anything* which might even remotely be construed as "apologetic" in nature?

As I've said many times before, I don't regard administrative work and things of that sort as "apologetic." You presumably do, but I don't. I regard speaking on apologetic topics and writing on apologetic topics as "apologetic." The $20K was not for my apologetic speaking. The $20K was not for my apologetic writing. The $20K was for neither my apologetic speaking nor for my apologetic writing.

I did, it's true, do adminstrative work. I did, it's true, travel with Ed Snow.

But the money that was paid to my department to compensate it for my time away from teaching for my department was not related to my administrative work. It was not related to my travel with Ed Snow.

It was also not related to my writing. To the very limited extent that I've ever been paid for my apologetic writing, that payment was never part of my salary. It was not part of the money paid to my department. It was not part of my duty as chairman of the FARMS board. (I wrote such things prior to my service as chairman of the FARMS board. I have written such things subsequent to my service as chairman of the FARMS board. My successor as chairman of the FARMS board never wrote a line for FARMS, apologetic or otherwise.)

The $20K's not for the board.
The $20K's not for my words.
They did not pay me $20K.
They did not pay me as you say.

The money paid to my department was for my work with the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative. It was not for apologetics. It was not for administering FARMS. It was not for traveling with Ed Snow. The money paid to my department was for my work with the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative.

If you were "Chair" of FARMS, then I'm afraid that's not true, my Dear Professor.

It was and is true, Malevolent Loon.

By the way: For how long, and during what years, did you edit and direct METI?

I founded METI in early 1993. I still direct it and edit its publications.

After all, as you have suggested elsewhere, if they are wrong, then you, as Chair at that time, might have to answer to the IRS.

When and if you or one of the other Scartcholeptics reports me or the organization to the IRS, I'll worry about that. (Or, rather, I'll let BYU's accountants worry about that.) I'm not interested in ten-year-old tax documents.

Here's their web site:

http://www.irs.gov/

I would advise you to read the form for yourself. You seem to have a very poor knowledge of the relevant literature.

I don't need to know any "literature" or read an IRS form in order to know whether or not I was paid $20,000.00 per year, or in any year, for my services as chairman of the FARMS board.

In Scartchworld, from what you say, it's common to donate more to charity than you earn, and to make so much money that you simply forget $20,000.00. But in the world where most of the rest of us live, such things simply aren't the norm.

There is nothing wrong with my reasoning. During those other years, as you yourself have stated, you received a small amount of money for editing and writing in the FROB. However, during your years as Chair, a significant chunk of your salary went towards this.

That's flatly false.

To summarize some of the leading points:

The money paid to my department was for my work with the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative.

The money was paid to my department so that I could direct the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative and edit the texts published by the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative.

Directing and editing the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative is entirely separate and distinct from serving as chairman of the board of FARMS.

The $20K's not for the board.
The $20K's not for my words.
They did not pay me $20K.
They did not pay me as you say.

[_Jersey Girl]

Theodor is that you?

"The $20K's not for the board.
The $20K's not for my words.
They did not pay me $20K.
They did not pay me as you say."

I do not like this Scratchy spam
I do not like it Sam I am.

[_Daniel Peterson]

I try to get the straight story, and DCP flips back and forth, changing his tune, and jerking all of us around. I can appreciate you wanting him to get a fair shake, but I think that you will have to admit, in all fairness, that he just hasn't been forthright about all of this.

I've been forthright, consistent, and accurate.

Too bad, no? It makes your work harder.

But, Scartch, smearing me isn't supposed to be easy.

[_antishock8]

Yes yes. The department did the work. Yes yes. No man ever received a dime. Ever. It just went to the department.

Jesus Christ.

Trying to get these assholes to be honest about anything is an exercise in futility.

[Guest]

Wow. Acute Scartcholepsy.

Usually, in such extreme cases, medical personnel induce a coma in order to give the brain a chance to heal.

Perhaps poor artichoke8's parents need to file a malpractice suit.

[_Jersey Girl]

Yes yes. The department did the work. Yes yes. No man ever received a dime. Ever. It just went to the department.

Jesus Christ.

Trying to get these assholes to be honest about anything is an exercise in futility.

That's not at all what Daniel has stated on this thread.

[_Mister Scratch]

The money was paid to my department so that I could direct the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative and edit the texts published by the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative.

Directing and editing the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative is entirely separate and distinct from serving as chairman of the board of FARMS.

But that's not what it says on the tax form, Prof. P. Rollo kindly linked it above, why don't you take a look? You, as "Board Chair," were paid $20,400. (The "Executive Director," by the way, Daniel Oswald, was paid $45,000.) *In addition* to this 20K, you were also apparently given an honorarium of $1,000. The form lists a number of payments that were made to the BYU anthropology and philosophy departments. It lists significant sums paid to the Ancient Studies Program, and to the Dead Sea Scrolls Foundation.

And yet.... There is *no* mention of METI. Why might that be? Also, why are payments to other academic departments listed, while yours is not? Curioser and curioser. (Your department is not a part of archaeology, right?)

I directed and edited the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative before I served as chairman of the FARMS board. I've directed and edited the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative since serving as chairman of the FARMS board. Directing and editing the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative is entirely separate and distinct from serving as chairman of the board of FARMS.

Again: your claims just aren't adding up. If what you say is true, then you'll need to explain how you all-of-the-sudden received a 20K "windfall" for serving as "Board Chair" of FARMS. Since, you know, you've been doing METI for all these years without any apparent fluctuation in the distribution of your salary.

Well, did you also do Mopologetic administrating work, or did you write, or travel with Ed Snow, or otherwise do *anything* which might even remotely be construed as "apologetic" in nature?

As I've said many times before, I don't regard administrative work and things of that sort as "apologetic." You presumably do, but I don't. I regard speaking on apologetic topics and writing on apologetic topics as "apologetic." The $20K was not for my apologetic speaking. The $20K was not for my apologetic writing. The $20K was for neither my apologetic speaking nor for my apologetic writing.

I did, it's true, do adminstrative work. I did, it's true, travel with Ed Snow.

Well, then, the 20K was partly for Mopologetics. Which means, in turn, that a portion of your salary was devoted to Mopologetics.

But the money that was paid to my department to compensate it for my time away from teaching for my department was not related to my administrative work. It was not related to my travel with Ed Snow.

It was also not related to my writing.

How do you know? Was this listed in your contract or tax documents somewhere?

The money paid to my department was for my work with the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative. It was not for apologetics. It was not for administering FARMS. It was not for traveling with Ed Snow. The money paid to my department was for my work with the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative.

Correction: it was for being "Board Chair" of FARMS. Cf. the document.

By the way: For how long, and during what years, did you edit and direct METI?

I founded METI in early 1993. I still direct it and edit its publications.

Again: how does that explain the massive windfall of 20K on the 1998 tax form? Why, all of the sudden, would FARMS pay out 20K for your work on METI?

I would advise you to read the form for yourself. You seem to have a very poor knowledge of the relevant literature.

I don't need to know any "literature" or read an IRS form in order to know whether or not I was paid $20,000.00 per year, or in any year, for my services as chairman of the FARMS board.

Apparently you do, since you are still oblivious to the documented facts.

There is nothing wrong with my reasoning. During those other years, as you yourself have stated, you received a small amount of money for editing and writing in the FROB. However, during your years as Chair, a significant chunk of your salary went towards this.

That's flatly false.

To summarize some of the leading points:

The money paid to my department was for my work with the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative.

Prove it. The more we dig into this affair, the more your story continues to crumble. Could it really be that you have been flat-out lying to us all this time?

[_Jersey Girl]

Scratch,

That he was paid 20K AS Board Chair is NOT documented proof that he was paid FOR being Board Chair.