Scratch, DCP, and the IRS

[_harmony]

Scratch, "mind your own business" is an answer. "None of your business" is also an answer. "No" is an answer.

Daniel gave you several answers, repeatedly, over and over.

You don't like his answers, but that doesn't mean he hasn't answered you.

You aren't his bishop; you aren't his boss; you aren't the government. He doesn't answer to you in any way; you aren't his judge. In other words: his business is not your business, no matter how much you'd like it to be, no matter how much or how often you try to make it so.

You asked him a series of questions, NONE of which are your business. He's nicer to you than I'd be; he answered you. I'd have told you to FO.

[_Ray A]

My personal judgement is Dan is telling the truth. I believe him.

I'll say too that I don't believe Dan is a liar. I don't believe he's in apologetics to "get gain". And I think the distinction between METI work, and FARMS work, may be a bit strained. It's like asking whether the Church has a paid clergy. Official answer: No. But GAs on boards of trustees? (Clamped down on, eventually) GAs who earn huge royalties from books, like Lund? All of this raises legitimate questions. Maybe Lund recycles all of his royalties back into the Church, or, perhaps, "Save the Whales" organisations, or maybe sustaining Prop 8. Who knows? If anyone should really come under close scrutiny here it's the GAs, with a timely warning from the Book of Mormon:

1 Nephi 22:

23 For the time speedily shall come that all churches which are built up to get gain, and all those who are built up to get power over the flesh, and those who are built up to become popular in the eyes of the world, and those who seek the lusts of the flesh and the things of the world, and to do all manner of iniquity; yea, in fine, all those who belong to the kingdom of the devil are they who need fear, and tremble, and quake; they are those who must be brought low in the dust; they are those who must be consumed as stubble; and this is according to the words of the prophet.

Mormon 8:

28 Yea, it shall come in a day when the power of God shall be denied, and churches become defiled and be lifted up in the pride of their hearts; yea, even in a day when leaders of churches and teachers shall rise in the pride of their hearts, even to the envying of them who belong to their churches.

36 And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.

[_Jersey Girl]

Scratch

No, Liz---I've just been trying to get a straight answer. As you can see, Jason Bourne (whom Jersey Girl is citing as an expert on all of this) was totally confused/misinformed about the Board Chair fee.

I have not cited Jason as an expert. I stated that he supplied you with detailed explanations that you have ignored.

Tell me how you think he was totally confused/misinformed about the Board Chair fee.

Repost for Scratch. I would like to go at this one piece at a time and would appreciate your answering the above.

[_harmony]

1 Nephi 22:

23 For the time speedily shall come that all churches which are built up to get gain, and all those who are built up to get power over the flesh, and those who are built up to become popular in the eyes of the world, and those who seek the lusts of the flesh and the things of the world, and to do all manner of iniquity; yea, in fine, all those who belong to the kingdom of the devil are they who need fear, and tremble, and quake; they are those who must be brought low in the dust; they are those who must be consumed as stubble; and this is according to the words of the prophet.

Mormon 8:

28 Yea, it shall come in a day when the power of God shall be denied, and churches become defiled and be lifted up in the pride of their hearts; yea, even in a day when leaders of churches and teachers shall rise in the pride of their hearts, even to the envying of them who belong to their churches.

36 And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.

Steadying the ark, Ray?

Pride, pride, pride. No wonder the church is under condemnation.

[_Ray A]

Pride, pride, pride. No wonder the church is under condemnation.

Reports are that President Benson didn't actually write This, but it was a Conference address nearly 20 years ago.

I earnestly seek an interest in your faith and prayers as I strive to bring forth light on this Book of Mormon message—the sin of pride. This message has been weighing heavily on my soul for some time. I know the Lord wants this message delivered now.

[Physics Guy]

Scratch, "mind your own business" is an answer. "None of your business" is also an answer. "No" is an answer.

Daniel gave you several answers, repeatedly, over and over.

You don't like his answers, but that doesn't mean he hasn't answered you.

Lol. Well, yes, I suppose that's true. On the other hand, I think it is easy enough to understand how/why I don't think we have arrived at any *real* answers to the questions I posed.

[_Mister Scratch]

My personal judgement is Dan is telling the truth. I believe him.

I'll say too that I don't believe Dan is a liar. I don't believe he's in apologetics to "get gain". And I think the distinction between METI work, and FARMS work, may be a bit strained. It's like asking whether the Church has a paid clergy. Official answer: No. But GAs on boards of trustees? (Clamped down on, eventually) GAs who earn huge royalties from books, like Lund? All of this raises legitimate questions. Maybe Lund recycles all of his royalties back into the Church, or, perhaps, "Save the Whales" organisations, or maybe sustaining Prop 8. Who knows?

Wait a second Ray. Am I misunderstanding you, or are you saying that you believe that DCP *does*, in fact, collect money---including a chunk of his salary---for his apologetic work?

[_Jersey Girl]

Third time for Scratch.

Tell me how you think he (Jason) was totally confused/misinformed about the Board Chair fee.

[_Ray A]

Wait a second Ray. Am I misunderstanding you, or are you saying that you believe that DCP *does*, in fact, collect money---including a chunk of his salary---for his apologetic work?

From my POV it's all inadequately defined. When does DCP put on his apologetic hat, and take off his apologetic hat? Does he spend two hours working on METI, then another two hours doing an FROB editorial? When he travels abroad to lecture on Islam, is he paid for that only, excluding, for example, any talks/firesides on apologetics? It seems to me to be a mishmash, all intermingled. Or, perhaps, maybe he has a record book where he separates time spend on various projects.

If I as an employee spend my employer's time reading Mormon apologetics, am I being paid to read apologetics? The work still gets done, even if my free time during working hours is spent reading apologetics. That is why I find the distinctions a mishmash.

[_Mister Scratch]

Wait a second Ray. Am I misunderstanding you, or are you saying that you believe that DCP *does*, in fact, collect money---including a chunk of his salary---for his apologetic work?

From my POV it's all inadequately defined. When does DCP put on his apologetic hat, and take off his apologetic hat? Does he spend two hours working on METI, then another two hours doing an FROB editorial? When he travels abroad to lecture on Islam, is he paid for that only, excluding, for example, any talks/firesides on apologetics? It seems to me to be a mishmash, all intermingled. Or, perhaps, maybe he has a record book where he separates time spend on various projects.

If I as an employee spend my employer's time reading Mormon apologetics, am I being paid to read apologetics? The work still gets done, even if my free time during working hours is spent reading apologetics. That is why I find the distinctions a mishmash.

Ray, that's exactly it. I have endeavored to try and untangle this big mess, but, generally speaking, all I have gotten is vague and confusing answers from DCP.