Scratch, DCP, and the IRS

[_Yoda]

Not comparable. I've done both. I worked for a company where my services were loaned to another company. The company's accountant took care of everything and I just continued to get my check. I had no idea how much of it was paid by each group or the accounting behind it.

I was in a similar situation as well. I was assigned by my college to create and teach courses for two affiliate companies which provided funding to the college. When I taught these courses, I reported for work directly at these businesses, and was not involved with my campus at all. However, I still received my paycheck from the college during this time frame.

I have no idea how taxes were filed on the companies' end, or the college's. All I know is that I continued to receive my normal salary from the college.

[_Jersey Girl]

Hello there, Jersey Girl. My apologies for not responding to this. You are on my "Ignore" list, so I seldom ever read your posts.

I see. So when you disingenously posted the following request on this thread:

If you, Jason, Harmony, Jersey, or anyone else who is sick of this topic can clearly answer all of those questions, then I will concede that they have been "asked and answered."

You had little or no intention of reading a response to it.

Anyways: sure, I'll be glad to support the assertion, but feel that it's only fair that you hold up part of the bargain on your end of things. To that end, I insist that you:

Is this a list of demands? I'll go item by item.

---apologize to me for your erratic and disquieting behavior toward me in the chat room

You mean the time in the chatroom where you whored yourself all over me to pump me for information? You mean this:

[Jersey Girl] 10:58 pm: What gossip is on the table?


[Jersey Girl] 10:58 pm: What about Scratch? Oh yes, he is here!

[Jersey Girl] 10:59 pm: Whats up Scratch?

[Jersey Girl] 11:00 pm: What's the deal on the apology thread, Scratch?

[Jersey Girl] 11:00 pm: Is there something missing from the information?

[Jersey Girl] 11:01 pm: About what?

[Jersey Girl] 11:02 pm: Spill it Scratch...what're you wondering about?



[Jersey Girl] 11:05 pm: Why wouldn't I?
[Jersey Girl] 11:05 pm: What doesn't add up?


[Jersey Girl] 11:06 pm: Yes, I think I saved a copy on my old computer...why?



[Jersey Girl] 11:08 pm: Because I forgot that I copied it at one point...what the hell is the mystery there?

[Jersey Girl] 11:09 pm: I had a memory for phrases that were on the blog...and ?

[Jersey Girl] 11:10 pm: I remember some of the phrases...what are you implying?
[Jersey Girl] 11:10 pm: Why is this so mysterious to you?

[Jersey Girl] 11:12 pm: Why doesn't that add up? Would you like me to just share my research with you upfront?

[Jersey Girl] 11:12 pm: Go find it yourself

[Jersey Girl] 11:13 pm: If it is of importance to you, go find it

[Jersey Girl] 11:13 pm: Good then leave me alone

[Jersey Girl] 11:14 pm: NO
[Jersey Girl] 11:15 pm: Why would I, Scratch?
[Jersey Girl] 11:15 pm: It's over and done with. Do you want those folks back at it again?

[Jersey Girl] 11:16 pm: Do you want people like Shades and harmony having to read that kind of stuff again?
[Jersey Girl] 11:16 pm: More smoke and mirrors?

[Jersey Girl] 11:17 pm: Are you delusional?


[Jersey Girl] 11:18 pm: Cough up what?

[Jersey Girl] 11:18 pm: What are you talking about?

[Jersey Girl] 11:19 pm: Find them yourself

[Jersey Girl] 11:19 pm: I have no reason to
[Jersey Girl] 11:19 pm: I don't know who Robbins is

[Jersey Girl] 11:20 pm: I found out what I needed for myself and for some reason you can't figure out why someone would apologize to another person
.
[Jersey Girl] 11:22 pm: PIece together what ever you like,Scratch. You keep trying to get information out of me that I'm unwilling to give. I found out what I wanted to know for myown purposes.

[Jersey Girl] 11:22 pm: No, why would I?
[Jersey Girl] 11:23 pm: I'm not interested in lighting their fire again

[Jersey Girl] 11:23 pm: Protect them???
[Jersey Girl] 11:24 pm: What are you talking about?

[Jersey Girl] 11:24 pm: Can't you read? Because I don't want to start trouble for people again by dredging it up!

[Jersey Girl] 11:26 pm: Scratch are you insane? If they were named they'd probably start up with stuff again...

[Jersey Girl] 11:27 pm: Who on earth do you think you are,Scratch? Why do YOU care who they are? Were theyposting YOUR private information?


[Jersey Girl] 11:28 pm: Protect them? How many times do I have to say that it would likely cause trouble again...it's not about protecting THEM for god's sake, it's about not seeing others splattered all over

[Jersey Girl] 11:28 pm: I didn't see anything personal about you that I recall

[Jersey Girl] 11:29 pm: Lying? Are you kidding?

[Jersey Girl] 11:30 pm: I don't know who Itchy was. I don't know who YOU are!

[Jersey Girl] 11:31 pm: Yes, I believe that I do

[Jersey Girl] 11:32 pm: What PM box? Huh? I think I have a copy on our old computer
[Jersey Girl] 11:32 pm: PM box?

[Jersey Girl] 11:34 pm: Why?

[Jersey Girl] 11:34 pm: It's over and done with. You should let it be done.
!
[Jersey Girl] 11:36 pm: I already stated on this board that I would never name them publicly.
[Jersey Girl] 11:36 pm: And I won't.
[Jersey Girl] 11:36 pm: I have no reason to. [Jersey Girl] 11:37 pm: I didn't say that.
[Jersey Girl] 11:38 pm: YOU said that. Can't you remember what you say? You said it. I have no idea who Mrs. Robbins is.

I make no apologies to anyone for the above conversation. The above contains all of the responses that I gave to you. Would you like me to post an unedited version that includes YOUR comments?

---apologize for recklessly perpetuating the rumor that Kerry Shirts was responsible for Mr. Itchy

I never once claimed that Kerry Shirts was responsible for Mr. Itchy. I told Shades directly and privately, via PM's that I thought Kerry Shirts was one or more of the Z trolls. Later, when I became convinced that I was wrong, I issued a public and private apology to Kerry Shirts.

If you want to exact an apology from someone who "perpetuated" the "rumor", I'm afraid you'll have to direct that request to Shades who circulated the information I shared with him privately via PM's with you and two other posters in a PM entitled "THE WHOLE STORY" and wherein he made errors that I later corrected.

Can't you get any thing right, Scratch?

---apologize for jerking me and Dr. Shades around when we asked you what you knew about Mr. Itchy.

I jerked around you and Dr. Shades? That's news to me. No, what I did was share information with Dr. Shades privately regarding the Ztrolls (not Itchy) and he in turn, circulated it to others one of whom was you. You later attempted to pump me for information that I was unwilling to supply. My words are documented in the above chat log. I'd be more than happy to post yours. Actually, Shades expressed his appreciation for my efforts on his behalf regarding those events.

So, if you'd be so kind as to oblige me on these points, I'd be glad to answer your request.

Asked and answered. Isn't it amazing what half assed lengths you'll go to in order to avoid supporting your baseless assertions? Now screw yourself, disingenous little gossip whore who can't get anything right.

[_Daniel Peterson]

I think the distinction between METI work, and FARMS work, may be a bit strained.

Ray, they're utterly distinct.

Read our edition of the Metaphysics of Ibn Sina or of Ibn Rushd's Middle Commentary on Aristotle's De Anima. If you can find a single Mormon apologetic sentence in either of them, I'll write you a personal check for $10,000.00 US.

When he travels abroad to lecture on Islam, is he paid for that only, excluding, for example, any talks/firesides on apologetics?

That one's easy. When I travel abroad to lecture on Islam, I'm paid precisely nothing. My travel, food, and lodging are paid, but I typically receive nothing at all for my lectures, whether on Islam or on Mormonism. My salary is unchanged whether I travel to do such lectures or not. And no, I'm not getting a paid vacation. It's nothing but lectures and interviews and meetings and more meetings. During my last lecture tour to Oz, for example, I had virtually no free time. I did get to come down to Wollongong to visit with you, but, apart from that, my only vacation time was a dinner cruise in Sydney Harbour on my last night there.

It seems to me to be a mishmash, all intermingled. Or, perhaps, maybe he has a record book where he separates time spend on various projects.

Professors don't clock in and out. Apart from the scheduled classes we teach and our committee assignments and our office consultations, we aren't required to account for how we spend the day. At the end of the year, we have to report what we've accomplished in terms of presentations at academic conferences, academic publications, and the like. If our level of productivity is acceptable to the university and as long as we meet our relatively few scheduled obligations, they don't care whether we did our writing and class preparation during the daylight or from midnight until 7 AM or entirely on weekends. They couldn't care less.

I was in a similar situation as well. I was assigned by my college to create and teach courses for two affiliate companies which provided funding to the college. When I taught these courses, I reported for work directly at these businesses, and was not involved with my campus at all. However, I still received my paycheck from the college during this time frame.

I have no idea how taxes were filed on the companies' end, or the college's. All I know is that I continued to receive my normal salary from the college.

Exactly. I've never cared particularly to know about the way the accountants have organized the payment of my salary. I'm not interested in such things, first of all, and, in any case, their financial arrangements make absolutely no difference whatsoever to my bottom line.

[_Ray A]

If you can find a single Mormon apologetic sentence in either of them, I'll write you a personal check for $10,000.00 US.

Would that be from your apologetics or academia account?

Just kidding!

I've got some shopping to do, but I've read your post twice, and I'll reply later.

[_The Nehor]

Not comparable. I've done both. I worked for a company where my services were loaned to another company. The company's accountant took care of everything and I just continued to get my check. I had no idea how much of it was paid by each group or the accounting behind it. I've also done contract work while holding a salaried position (right now actually). Now I take care to keep precise records of all my contract activities for tax reasons and keep all my business expenses separate.

One required no effort and I could remain ignorant and do my job. The other I had to take much more care.

You mean you and your employers didn't have a CLEAR understanding about your 1) time, 2) job scope, and 3) pay?

Don't be stupid.

Of course I knew how long I was going to be working for them and what my job entailed. I knew that I would continue being paid as before but I have only an estimate of how much our company was being paid for all the employees and resources they got and no idea how much I cost individually.

[_Mister Scratch]

---apologize to me for your erratic and disquieting behavior toward me in the chat room

You mean the time in the chatroom where you whored yourself all over me to pump me for information?

No, I'm referring to your extraordinarily disquieting behavior when myself, msnobody, and I believe one other person (Bond, perhaps) were in there.

I make no apologies to anyone for the above conversation. The above contains all of the responses that I gave to you.

Yes, and it's clear you were jerking me around. Later, you privately confessed to Liz that you never knew that information on myself had been included on the blog. This, however, didn't seem to faze you one bit, and you continued to dodge my direct questions. That's what has never added up to me about you: you continuously brag about your interest in "the truth," and etc., but when asked direct questions about this series of events, all you did was give jerk-around replies like "Go do your own homework," or else you would respond with a series of game-playing questions. I know I'm not alone in resenting your "game playing."

---apologize for recklessly perpetuating the rumor that Kerry Shirts was responsible for Mr. Itchy

I never once claimed that Kerry Shirts was responsible for Mr. Itchy. I told Shades directly and privately, via PM's that I thought Kerry Shirts was one or more of the Z trolls. Later, when I became convinced that I was wrong, I issued a public and private apology to Kerry Shirts.

Potato, potahto. You did very much state that the "Z trolls" were responsible for Itchy, and thus, if you insinuated (completely irresponsibly, by the way) that K. Shirts was a "Z troll," you also suggested he was involved with Itchy. QED. Even you are not too stupid to understand the logic behind this.

If you want to exact an apology from someone who "perpetuated" the "rumor", I'm afraid you'll have to direct that request to Shades who circulated the information I shared with him privately via PM's with you and two other posters in a PM entitled "THE WHOLE STORY" and wherein he made errors that I later corrected.

If that's correct, then you are still at fault for putting the (totally, stunningly, insultingly) false notion into his head in the first place. Have you apologized for being the source of that wrong notion? To me? To Harmony? To anyone else who was directly affected by the blog?

Can't you get any thing right, Scratch?

Well, it's kind of hard when you keep getting jerked around.

---apologize for jerking me and Dr. Shades around when we asked you what you knew about Mr. Itchy.

I jerked around you and Dr. Shades? That's news to me. No, what I did was share information with Dr. Shades privately regarding the Ztrolls (not Itchy) and he in turn,

The hell you did. Your technique is to respond to requests for information with a series of obnoxious questions. If I were to ask you, say, "What do you know about Itchy?" your typical response would be, "Think about this. Who posts using such-and-such a word?"

That's not a real answer, Jersey. You had to ask me four times about the Jason Bourne thing on this thread, so I know you know what it's like to have to ask the same question over and over again. Once upon a time I wondered if you weren't aware of the effect that your game-playing has. Now, however, I'm convinced that it's just part of your pathology, and your endless thirst for drama and blowing things out of proportion. (To quote Dr. Shades.)

You later attempted to pump me for information that I was unwilling to supply. My words are documented in the above chat log. I'd be more than happy to post yours. Actually, Shades expressed his appreciation for my efforts on his behalf regarding those events.

He also later wondered (as did I) why you deleted your supposedly "public" apology. Do cover up evidence, maybe? Let's not forget that one of the ZLMB moderators (Cal, perhaps?) stated that your IP address matched one of the Z troll's.

So, if you'd be so kind as to oblige me on these points, I'd be glad to answer your request.

Asked and answered. Isn't it amazing what half assed lengths you'll go to in order to avoid supporting your baseless assertions? Now screw yourself, disingenous little gossip whore who can't get anything right.

No, I think that you can screw yourself, Jersey. The above that I've mentioned doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of how much of an unstable nutjob you are. One poster told me via PM that s/he feared that you would seriously interfere with this person's private family life. To say that you are an utter disgrace and a base, disgusting human being is a real understatement.

[_Mister Scratch]

When he travels abroad to lecture on Islam, is he paid for that only, excluding, for example, any talks/firesides on apologetics?

That one's easy. When I travel abroad to lecture on Islam, I'm paid precisely nothing. My travel, food, and lodging are paid, but I typically receive nothing at all for my lectures, whether on Islam or on Mormonism. My salary is unchanged whether I travel to do such lectures or not.

Nevertheless, given the nature of your job, it is entirely fair to say that your salary "covers" some of your Mopologetic activities---such as lectures.

It seems to me to be a mishmash, all intermingled. Or, perhaps, maybe he has a record book where he separates time spend on various projects.

Professors don't clock in and out. Apart from the scheduled classes we teach and our committee assignments and our office consultations, we aren't required to account for how we spend the day. At the end of the year, we have to report what we've accomplished in terms of presentations at academic conferences, academic publications, and the like. If our level of productivity is acceptable to the university and as long as we meet our relatively few scheduled obligations, they don't care whether we did our writing and class preparation during the daylight or from midnight until 7 AM or entirely on weekends. They couldn't care less.

Meaning, of course, that you feel comfortable telling people that your salary "doesn't cover" Mopologetics merely because you don't report it. But, as is clear, your salary covers things which you don't necessarily list off for your year-end report. I doubt, for example, that you list "reading and grading papers" on your report, though that's obviously what you do. Similarly, you may say, "work for the Maxwell Institute," which we all know includes apologetics. Thus, your salary partly covers your Mopologetic activities.

[_Ray A]

Ray, they're utterly distinct.

Read our edition of the Metaphysics of Ibn Sina or of Ibn Rushd's Middle Commentary on Aristotle's De Anima. If you can find a single Mormon apologetic sentence in either of them, I'll write you a personal check for $10,000.00 US.

I wouldn't expect to find any Mormon apologetic commentary in them, Dan, so your $10,000 is safe.

When he travels abroad to lecture on Islam, is he paid for that only, excluding, for example, any talks/firesides on apologetics?

That one's easy. When I travel abroad to lecture on Islam, I'm paid precisely nothing. My travel, food, and lodging are paid, but I typically receive nothing at all for my lectures, whether on Islam or on Mormonism. My salary is unchanged whether I travel to do such lectures or not. And no, I'm not getting a paid vacation. It's nothing but lectures and interviews and meetings and more meetings. During my last lecture tour to Oz, for example, I had virtually no free time. I did get to come down to Wollongong to visit with you, but, apart from that, my only vacation time was a dinner cruise in Sydney Harbour on my last night there.

Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't realise, nor ask, what the circumstances were. But I'm still a bit in the dark about this. Was it BYU who paid for this? I hope you don't mind the questions. If BYU paid for it, why would they be interested in sending a lecturer on Islam to Australia? Unless of course you were invited by Australian universities, which may be the case. If I read this in media reports, I've forgotten the details.

I can certainly verify that your visit with me was under pressure, and at one stage you didn't know if you'd make it, because, as I understand, your tour organisers were a bit baffled with your intention to visit Gong, and it was only for a mere four hour visit. I appreciate the time you took to visit. Next time get a GPS :)

It seems to me to be a mishmash, all intermingled. Or, perhaps, maybe he has a record book where he separates time spend on various projects.

Professors don't clock in and out. Apart from the scheduled classes we teach and our committee assignments and our office consultations, we aren't required to account for how we spend the day. At the end of the year, we have to report what we've accomplished in terms of presentations at academic conferences, academic publications, and the like. If our level of productivity is acceptable to the university and as long as we meet our relatively few scheduled obligations, they don't care whether we did our writing and class preparation during the daylight or from midnight until 7 AM or entirely on weekends. They couldn't care less.

I understand all that, Dan. My earlier question was "when does DCP put on his apologetic hat, and when does he take it off?" Let's say, using a rough analogy, that you've completed assignments in your academic role in four hours in a given day, and you spend the rest of the day working on FARMS material. You are being paid, in effect, for time spent in apologetics. Would you agree, or disagree?

[_Yoda]

Let's say, using a rough analogy, that you've completed assignments in your academic role in four hours in a given day, and you spend the rest of the day working on FARMS material. You are being paid, in effect, for time spent in apologetics. Would you agree, or disagree?

Disagree. ;) (I know you didn't ask me, but I'll throw in my two cents here. LOL)

He's salaried for his academic work. That may take him 4 hours one day, and 12 hours the next. How he balances his time is not an issue with the university as long as he does the job that he is paid for, and does it well.

If he finishes his academic work early on a given day, and decides to devote time to a personal project, that it his prerogative, based on the type of career he has.

[_Ray A]

Disagree. ;) (I know you didn't ask me, but I'll throw in my two cents here. LOL)

He's salaried for his academic work. That may take him 4 hours one day, and 12 hours the next. How he balances his time is not an issue with the university as long as he does the job that he is paid for, and does it well.

If he finishes his academic work early on a given day, and decides to devote time to a personal project, that it his prerogative, based on the type of career he has.

I understand that, Liz. But does BYU have an "understanding" with Dan in regard to apologetics? "Kill two birds with one stone", kind of thing. I'm playing "Devil's advocate" here, because as I've said before, even if that's true, I won't die of shock.