YAPMS (yet another Political Mormon Site) pro capitalism

[_bcspace]

It's inherent because socialism requires a dictatorship. Can one living under socialism freely choose to get out of it? No, one can't. What about one living under Consecration? Yes, one can.

You're telling me that the citizens of Europe aren't free to move to other countries?

Would living the law of consecration require someone choosing not to live such a law to move to another country?

What happens when the goal of worldwide socialism is met? Should someone move to another planet?

There are more detailed reasons, but the bottom line is socialism inherently curtails agency. It has nothing to do with knowing God.

There'd better be more reasons because I don't buy the lack of agency thing when it comes to socialism--at least not as it is practiced in Europe with socialized medicine.

Can I choose not to support with my taxes someone else's lifestyle choice, such as having 7,8, or a dozen children? What happens if I want more children and I am not allowed?

Just one of myriads of examples.

But can they demonstrate it?

Depends on who the Judge is, I suppose.

The Judge has already been determined 1 Corinthians 6:2

[_The Nehor]

Man, why does every Mormon think official doctrine supports their hobby horse?

There is no greater sense of self-righteousness then to believe that the God of the Universe is on your side. They want God as an advocate, not a teacher.

The irony is that many of the people who are most paranoid about secret combinations often belong to them and never realize it.

[_aussieguy55]

It socialism is so bad why do countries that elect social democratic parties to power most of the time in the 10 countries with highest standard of living - Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland , Australia.

[_Roger Morrison]

It socialism is so bad why do countries that elect social democratic parties to power most of the time in the 10 countries with highest standard of living - Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland , Australia.

Cuz those countries are more secular, and past the stage of religious fundamentalism that generally operates in an either-or psyche environment. Such countries, USA being the prominent abode of such, have difficulty avoiding extremes, and acknowledging that THEIRS is trumped by any other blend of socio-politio theory proven in practice.

My post, several above, was to illustrate the origin of much of Canada's "peace, order & good government" resulted from successful attempts to apply "Social Gospel" influence. Unfortunately, generally, in the USA, and especially in Mormonism, the idea that Satan is behind Socialistic principles blinds them to that Christian truth. They prefer the "Salvation Gospel" that facilitates other-worldliness and less responsibilty for this one. After all this globe will eventually be Celestialized--right??

Well, it is now evident that their bubble has burst. The great American Dream, as it has devolved, is a Night Mare. The mare has been fed on Greed, Credit and Advertising that have succeeded in deluding the gulible to believe in a false economic philosphy.

So what now? The absurdity of NOT suggesting RESTAINT!! But rather reviving THE BEAST that has devored them so they can carry on advancing CREDIT!!

The USA has been hit by an economic hurricane of the highest magnitude, a Katrina that threatens to destroyed their sand-castles. While Europe was devasted by bombs of others necessitating rebuilding, the USA is facing their enemies within, those that amassed fortunes as they deluded the folks that made them rich.

When institutions of "learning" budget more on Sports than any other subject area; when College coaches are paid more than a Professor/Teacher in many School, ya gotta wonder...

When industialists, retailers, athletes and other entertainers scooped up from the masses, such disproportionate wealth, ya gotta wonder... When endorsements add milllions to Sport Pro earnings, ya really gotta wonder... When people think they need all their wants--and are encouraged and indoctrinated by the system to buy them ON CREDIT--ya gotta wonder...

A society built on myth and memes can only go on so long. A very sad reality... There will be no recovery without pain--think war-torn-Europe. Phoenix is said to have risen from its ashes...

To end on a Churchy note: All of this self embelishment & wealth seeking seems to run counter to the teachings of the guy who owned nothing and warned that, "...the love of money is the root of all evil..." Yet, in all of my many decades of church attendance, I cannot recall, other than in passing comments, real Sermons/Talks devoted to eschewing consumerism.

The great Mormon homily, "...here to gather experience..." Maybe in "God's" plan?
Ya gotta wonder, eh...
Roger

[_The Nehor]

To end on a Churchy note: All of this self embelishment & wealth seeking seems to run counter to the teachings of the guy who owned nothing and warned that, "...the love of money is the root of all evil..." Yet, in all of my many decades of church attendance, I cannot recall, other than in passing comments, real Sermons/Talks devoted to eschewing consumerism.

Really?

I hear them all the time. We get warnings about buying what you can afford and the wisdom of saving. We get warnings about credit cards. Our last fifth Sunday meeting was about this. I remember a talk in General Conference that included counsel on interest and home equity loans. Elder Holland talked once about the dangers of 'keeping up with the Joneses". I've given talks on financial management as well. I think the counsel of the Church is clear on this matter. If that is not enough then we have the command to flee Babylon and a pretty clear picture in scripture of what Babylon is.

[_Roger Morrison]

To end on a Churchy note: All of this self embelishment & wealth seeking seems to run counter to the teachings of the guy who owned nothing and warned that, "...the love of money is the root of all evil..." Yet, in all of my many decades of church attendance, I cannot recall, other than in passing comments, real Sermons/Talks devoted to eschewing consumerism.

Really?

I hear them all the time. We get warnings about buying what you can afford and the wisdom of saving. We get warnings about credit cards. Our last fifth Sunday meeting was about this. I remember a talk in General Conference that included counsel on interest and home equity loans. Elder Holland talked once about the dangers of 'keeping up with the Joneses". I've given talks on financial management as well. I think the counsel of the Church is clear on this matter. If that is not enough then we have the command to flee Babylon and a pretty clear picture in scripture of what Babylon is.

Hi Nehor, glad to know that. I think traditional cultured LDS might be more conservative spenders. Looking across the Christian gamut, and the 80+/-% of Ams who claim belief in God/Jesus, it just can't be atheists & Moslems who are sucked in by consumerism, and responsible for the need to bail out 7hundredbillion...

Some say USA resembles Babylon? Fleeing/escape is not as easy for some as it is for others. Single folks have some great advantages ;-) Most folks don't know what they're in until there is no escape... Except in the life boat. Certainly there will be the survival of the fittest. Crisis tends to bring the best out of most folks, once they accept reality and work/cooperate together realizing there's no magic wand to be waves by in-denial-politicians...

How about letting the corporations and their execs lose their fat--sell yatchs, Lears, Mansions etc and have the 7ooB$$ go for building AFFORDABLE housing & pick-up a % of industrial pay-roles, affix controls temporarily over consumer-credit... As was done in WWII?? This is USA's Home Defence program. No need to fear Terrorists from abroad ...blah...blah...blah...

Maybe for LDS "over spending" could be an adjunct TR question along with "over eating"??

Raving Roger :-)

[_The Nehor]

Hi Nehor, glad to know that. I think traditional cultured LDS might be more conservative spenders. Looking across the Christian gamut, and the 80+/-% of Ams who claim belief in God/Jesus, it just can't be atheists & Moslems who are sucked in by consumerism, and responsible for the need to bail out 7hundredbillion...

Some say USA resembles Babylon? Fleeing/escape is not as easy for some as it is for others. Single folks have some great advantages ;-) Most folks don't know what they're in until there is no escape... Except in the life boat. Certainly there will be the survival of the fittest. Crisis tends to bring the best out of most folks, once they accept reality and work/cooperate together realizing there's no magic wand to be waves by in-denial-politicians...

How about letting the corporations and their execs lose their fat--sell yatchs, Lears, Mansions etc and have the 7ooB$$ go for building AFFORDABLE housing & pick-up a % of industrial pay-roles, affix controls temporarily over consumer-credit... As was done in WWII?? This is USA's Home Defence program. No need to fear Terrorists from abroad ...blah...blah...blah...

Maybe for LDS "over spending" could be an adjunct TR question along with "over eating"??

Raving Roger :-)

Crisis can bring out the best in people but if there is someone around it can also unite people in a mob. The gap between rich and poor is growing and that is not good for social and political stability.

The problem is that the crisis is bankrupting corporations. I don't see taking from them as helping. We need an increase in government regulation of the credit industry. The credit industry also needs to get it through it's thick skull that they need to start taking REASONABLE risks with credit. Some people should stop getting credit card offers, mortgages, and being able to finance cars. They also need to figure out a little better on large loans if the customer will be able to pay them back. When I worked in Credit Counseling I was shocked at the insanity people took part in. A couple with no kids with a combined income of over 300k that owed over a million in consumer debt.

While some LDS are caught in the money traps I think we do the best we can to warn people. I'm hoping the suggestion of a TR question was a joke. We have an eating question already with the Word of Wisdom. If they say they're following it and they're not then that is between them and God. Note: Without serious medical conditions if you are more then 40 pounds overweight I'm guessing you're violating the Word of Wisdom. However, that is the gospel according to me.

[_Roger Morrison]

Crisis can bring out the best in people but if there is someone around it can also unite people in a mob. The gap between rich and poor is growing and that is not good for social and political stability. Historically correct. Have we learned anything from that? I can't help but put a lot of responsibility upon Christianity's lack of influence on its wealthy segment...

The problem is that the crisis is bankrupting corporations. Not all. Just those, generally, who mismanage their business--in any # of ways. I don't see taking from them as helping. No one is "taking from them". They played & lost. We need an increase in government regulation of the credit industry. Absolutely! The credit industry also needs to get it through it's thick skull that they need to start taking REASONABLE risks with credit. That is not the nature of those who deal in usury. (Old Testament warned against the practice) They expect some dead-beats as part of their risk. They have VERY little invested compared to manufacturing, except so averages is their only concern. When they "lose" what have they lost? The money of others who have invested in a low-asset entity. Some people should stop getting credit card offers, mortgages, and being able to finance cars. They also need to figure out a little better on large loans if the customer will be able to pay them back. Absolutely! Education would be much better than after-the-fact counselling that could also cost them money. Start in elementary school & take it right through all levels. More practical/beneficial than teaching Creationism ;-0 When I worked in Credit Counseling I was shocked at the insanity people took part in. A couple with no kids with a combined income of over 300k that owed over a million in consumer debt. High income doesn't necesssarily mean being practical &/or smart...

While some LDS are caught in the money traps I think we do the best we can to warn people. I'm hoping the suggestion of a TR question was a joke. ???:-) We have an eating question already with the Word of Wisdom. In general? Not a direct abstenance of alcohol & tobacco? As I recall?? If they say they're following it and they're not then that is between them and God. Note: Without serious medical conditions if you are more then 40 pounds overweight I'm guessing you're violating the Word of Wisdom. However, that is the gospel according to me.

It will be interesting to see how this economic/moral/social crisis ends. IF Americans had open minds they might look at their greatest threat since 1776, the awakening of Asia and see how compromise of their hard-line is "surging" them ahead.

The essence of any lasting remedy is the redistribution of wealth in America. The working out of that should not be left in the hands of Washington or Wall Street but rather to be solved more by Social Scientists and those schooled in Humanities. Generally speaking.

I attended an "All Candidates Meeting" (Canada) last night and listened to ambitious, well-intended, opinionated Farmers, Business folks & one Christian-alliance, candidates none of whom were educated beyond Secondary School. Not that that says every thing about their qualifications to represent constituents. We need people who know how to reach agreement, rather than how to win an arguement by one-upmanship...
Enjoy yer day,
Roger