Is Bill Maher serious?

[_TAK]

Dart,
I and others have asked in the past how you could apply critical skills to Joseph Smith to conclude he was a fraud and then apply the same skills to Jesus and the associated myths and not come up with the same conclusion..

If you responded to that query I would be interested in reading your analysis if you can link it here..

Thanks!

[_dartagnan]

So nobody wants to explain Maher's lies?

Figures.

[_Mad Viking]

But Maher was on "The View" yesterday and he went off on a rant that said some pretty stupid things, such as the Christ story being "the exact" story of the ancient God Horus who also resurrected a man named Lazarus.

Is your problem with Maher's statement about Horus and Jesus that he used the phrase "the exact" when discussing the two stories? If he had said there are "many, many parallels" between the two stories would you have the same reaction?

On a side note, what did the banshees on The View think of his statements about Jesus? I can't imagine them reacting well to Maher's statements.

[_harmony]

So nobody wants to explain Maher's lies?

Figures.

He doesn't have to be lying. He could just be wrong.

[_GoodK]

I addressed this issue on this forum back in January. It seems clear Maher is a product of internet ignorance. He is regurgitating stuff from that online movie called Zeitgeist.

You addressed it about as well as Sherri Shepard did. In fact, you remind me of her quite a bit.

Sherri: "You just haven't talked with God... Oh yes. God has answered me."

Kevin: "Atheists... are so pissed off at life because they haven't had an experience with the divine."

LOL.


Seriously though, you are full of it. and no one is calling Bill Maher on his lies because he wasn't lying.

Here is a good link for those that care to venture beyond Christian junk science sites like tektonics.org:

It documents many parallels between the Jesus myth and the Horus myth - including Lazarus.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm

"Asar was an alternative name for Osirus, Horus' father, who Horus raised from the dead. He was referred to as "the Asar," as a sign of respect. Translated into Hebrew, this is "El-Asar." The Romans added the prefix "us" to indicate a male name, producing "Elasarus." Over time, the "E" was dropped and "s" became "z," producing "Lazarus."

[_dartagnan]

His claim is horse crap pure and simple. No religion scholar or Egyptian scholar would ever say Jesus was a rip off of Horus. This was beaten to death in the thread I linked from back in January, and you, GoodK, looked like an utter moron for trying to give Zeitgeist the benefit of the doubt.

[_Trevor]

"Asar was an alternative name for Osirus, Horus' father, who Horus raised from the dead. He was referred to as "the Asar," as a sign of respect. Translated into Hebrew, this is "El-Asar." The Romans added the prefix "us" to indicate a male name, producing "Elasarus." Over time, the "E" was dropped and "s" became "z," producing "Lazarus."

So this means the Hebrew name (Elʿāzār Eleazar "God (has) helped") is a cover for an Egyptian mythological figure?

[_dartagnan]

He doesn't have to be lying. He could just be wrong.

When you're wrong with such bombastic certitude as he, you're a liar. He revealed just how serious he was about researching truth. Not very.

Seriously though, you are full of it. and no one is calling Bill Maher on his lies because he wasn't lying.

Here is a good link for those that care to venture beyond Christian junk science sites like tektonics.org:

Yea, what a scholarly presentation that article is. The fact is, that article is wrong too. But you already know this because it was illustrated to you on a silver platter earlier this year. Some people refuse to be educated.

One can find many articles on the web that "say" Horus and Jesus are essentially the same, but where do they get this stuff? They all originate from teh same Gerald Massey who misread the Book of the Dead. No Egyptologist after him has every confirmed his readings of it. The Book of the Dead is available in English, so why don't modern Christ-mythers just cite the relevant passages instead of citing Massey's ridiculous and outdated book?

Apologists are scratching their heads how to deal with this because they're just shocked that so many people have bought into something without even checking the credibility of the source. Maher is now include among these idiots.
Here is a fairly decent synopsis of this problem: http://stupidevilbastard.com/index/seb/ ... _of_horus/

========================================

I’ve heard repeated here several times that Horus, an Egyptian god, is carbon copy of Jesus. The obvious implication by those that have made this statement is that Jesus is a copycat version of an earlier Egyptian deity. The purpose of this entry is to disembowel that proposition once and for all.

When I first heard that Horus was the inspiration for Jesus several years ago, I didn’t give it much credence because I couldn’t establish any source material for the claims. I still can’t, but the internet is as adept at allowing anybody and everybody to pass on misinformation.

Upon further research, I’ve concluded that this theory originated with Gerald Massey, an English poet, born 1828, died 1927. He published primarily poems, but had an interest in Egypt. He parlayed that interest in Egypt into several books and lectures in which he set forth the proposition that Horus was in essence the first Jesus, and Jesus was a cheap imitation. The primary basis for his writing is the Egyptian Book of the Dead. This is available on-line and you can easily look it up to read it yourself. Be forewarned that forced reading of this would be an extremely efficient form of torture.

It should be noted that Massey’s actual proposition was that Jesus was a copycat from more than just Horus. According to Massey, Jesus was a compilation of an innumerable number of Egyptian deities. There were over 2,000 deities who had every human and godlike characteristic one can think of, excepting Superman’s power to stop a speeding bullet.

Since Massey, there is a dearth of anybody with any credentials that has adopted a straight Horus=Jesus theory. There is a one individual that has adopted some of Massey’s thoughts and incorporated them into a book-The Christ Conspiracy. This appears to be the basis for the claims that I see. The author is Acharya S. Her website is http://www.truthbeknown.com I note that Richard Price, a noted Christ Myther, and one that I take much more seriously then Acharya, said the following:

“Those of use who uphold any version of the controversial Christ Myth theory find ourselves immediately the object not just of criticism, but even of ridicule. And it causes us chagrin to be lumped together with certain writers with whom we share the Christ Myth butt little else.....

His other criticism, like mine, is that she uses very dated sources (19th Century) who were in Price’s words “eccentrics, freethinkers, and theosophists.”

Les, I am using your post from 1/3/05 as an example of the claims because you carry more credibility than most. That said here are the claims and what I have found:

Claim #1-Horus and Jesus are born from a virgin.

Horus’s mother is Isis. Isis was married to Osiris. We do not know for what length of time, but presumably the marriage was consummated. Whether it was or wasn’t doesn’t matter though. After Osiris is killed, Isis puts him back together again (he was hacked into 14 pieces) except for his penis which was tossed in a river or a lake. Iris fashions a substitute penis for him, humps him and here comes Horus. There is nothing virginal about that.

Claim #2-Both Horus and Jesus were born to a Mary and Joseph. (Seb)

As noted Isis is Horus’s mother’s name not Mary. In addition, Seb is not Horus’s father, Osiris is. Seb is Osiris’s father. Further, Seb is a distinct name from Joseph. Putting them side by side does not make them synonyms, and that appears to be what was done here.

Claim #3-Both were born of royal descent.

This is accurate.

Claim #4-Both births were announced by angels and witnessed by shepherds.

I can find nothing that mentions that the birth of Horus was announced by an angel or witnessed by shepherds. I have found that Horus was born in a swamp, which is a pretty unlikely place for shepherds. In addition Acharya mentions that Horus was born in a cave. Massey makes no mention of this, although he does represent that Mithra was born in a cave.

Claim #5-Both were heralded by stars and angels.

There is no star that heralded Horus’s birth nor is there any angel announcing it. Archarya in a footnote in The Origins of Christianity indicates that that there are three stars named the three kings in Orion and then relates this to the birth of Jesus. When we look to the stories regarding Horus, we find no star or angel announcing his birth. To the extent that Acharya S relies upon Massey and Massey relies upon what is depicted in the panels at Luxor see (from an atheist) further regarding virgin birth and pronouncement by angels http://www.frontline-apologetics.com/ca ... iption.htm

Claim #6-Both had later visitors (Horus-3 deities and Jesus-3 wisemen.)

There is no indication that there ever were 3 wisemen. The Bible never mentions the number of wisemen, nor is there any document that reflects 3 deities at the birth of Horus. See the website referenced in Claim #5.

Claim #7-Both had murder plots against them.

There is mention that Seth did want to kill Horus, and Herod wanted to kill Jesus. so this is accurate.

Claim#8-Both came of age at 12, were baptized and their baptizers were executed.

There is no indication that Horus was preaching in a temple when he was 12. In fact, Massey indicates that Hours the child was depicted as a “weakling.” That doesn’t jive with story of Jesus preaching in the temple. Again this appears to have been a confabulation from Acharya and repeated by others.

Horus was never baptized in any of the Horus stories. In addition, Acharya mentions that John the Baptist is actually Anup the Baptizer. This individual is never mentioned anywhere in any Horus account. There is not even a footnote in Archaya’s on-line work The Origins of Christianity to support this. There is nothing.

Claim #9-Both had 12 disciples.

According to the Horus accounts, Horus had four semi-gods that were followers. There is some indication of 16 human followers and an unknown number of blacksmiths that went into battle with him. Horus did not have 12 disciples. Jesus reportedly did. Acharya failed to give a footnote to support this.

Massey points to a mural in the Book of Hades in which there are twelve reapers. Horus is not present in this scene. For Massey to make this connection he goes to a different scene within the same mural. In this scene there is a picture of a god whose name is the Master of Joy. Horus is never depicted although in other murals the artists do depict Horus. Had the artists ascribed 12 reapers in any relation to Horus all they had to do was put Horus at the scene. They did not.

Claim #10-Both walked on water.

Horus didn’t, or at least there is no record that I can find that he did. Massey does not maintain that Hours did. Massey uses wild conjecture to connect the story of fish man, Oannes, not Horus, to Jesus. Oannes came out of the sea during the day, and went back into the sea at night. Massey makes the two analogous because by his calculations, Jesus walked on water during the day.

As to Acharya, she as usual provides nothing to substantiate this.

Claim #11-Both performed miracles.

This is true although the miracles were different in scope and nature.

Claim #12 Both exorcised demons and raised Lazarus.

The actual claim is that Horus raised Osiris from the dead and that the name Osiris morphed to Lazarus. It doesn’t matter because Horus did not bring Osiris back to life. There is no mention of this in any document regarding the story. Horus did avenge Osiris’s death, but that did not raise Osiris from the dead.

Claim #13-Both held a Sermon on the Mount; both were transfigured on a mountain, died by crucifixion along with two thieves and were buried in tombs where they paid a quick visit to Hell and then rose from the dead after 3 days time, both resurrections were witness by women, and both will supposedly reign for 1,000 years in the Millennium.

These are the most damning claims if they were proven true in my opinion. Yet, I can locate none of this. No sermon, no transfiguration, certainly no crucifixion w/ two thieves, no trip to hell and no resurrection. There was an incident in which Horus was torn to pieces and Iris requested the crocodile god to fish him out of the water he was tossed into, which was done, but that’s it. I am at a loss to refute this because I can not find anything to support it.

Massey does compares a story about the Autumn Equinox related to Osiris, not Horus, as the symbolic crucifixion. There is no indication that Horus is involved in any way. There is no mention by Massey of any Sermon on the Mount. No mention or any actual crucifixion, no two thieves, no burial in a tomb. Massey does not maintain that anything of the sort occurred with Horus.

In short, of the claims outlined in this entry, I find the comparison between Horus and Jesus to consist of the following: they were of royal descent, they allegedly worked miracles and there were murder plots against them.

[_GoodK]

His claim is horse crap pure and simple. No religion scholar or Egyptian scholar would ever say Jesus was a rip off of Horus.

Do you care if what you just said is true? It seems like Christians don't really care about truth, either way.

It's not like I just linked to a website with tons of references to religion and Egyption scholars who note the parallels between the Christian myth and the Horus myth in my last post.

This was beaten to death in the thread I linked from back in January, and you, GoodK, looked like an utter moron for trying to give Zeitgeist the benefit of the doubt.

No, I don't think so. Zeitgeist deserves more attention than your lousy dismissal of it. I admit that the 9/11 conspiracy theory stuff is embarrassing, but the parallels between Jesus Christ and Horus are documented accurately in the movie.

[_Trevor]

When you're wrong with such bombastic certitude as he, you're a liar.

How so?