Is Bill Maher serious?

[_Trevor]

So, you don't think Horus was specifically in mind when Christian tradition was being formed?

I don't think one can rule out Horus specifically, because Egypt was clearly important in the Jesus traditions. His family supposedly sought refuge there, and this is in line with the importance of the Jewish community in Alexandria, Egypt. Other, similar phenomena suggest at least the possibility. The Third Sibylline Oracle, a "Jewish" text which was first composed in Greek around the mid first century BCE, probably in the Roman province of Asia (where some people place the birth of Gentile Christianity), contained a messianic prophecy about the appearance of an Egyptian king. It is also interesting that later on certain Jews and Christians believed that the Hellenistic Egyptian god Sarapis originated in the patriarch Joseph. So, I would not absolutely exclude Horus, but I do not know precisely how he may fit in or why.

The Flavian dynasty, which was responsible for the destruction of Jerusalem, applied eastern prophecies about rulers who were to emerge in Judea to themselves. Vespasian reportedly healed two people on the command of the god Sarapis in Alexandria, and Titus, his son, presided over the selection of a new Apis bull. So, it makes sense to that in competition with such claims Christians would render their guy as much cooler than guys like Vespasian and Titus. Otherwise, how could he be "all that"?

[_dartagnan]

There are plenty of what critics would call refutations of Mormonism, but that doesn't guarantee apologists will buy them. Are these apologists therefore liars?

In many cases yes, and that was ultimately what drove me away from the field. But apologetics is the act of defending something. Maher is on the offensive. Attacking religion in the spirit of George Carlin is something he spends a great deal of time, money and energy doing. I suggest he get his facts straight.

Kevin, that was as entertaining and spectacular meltdown as I've ever seen! New strategy for apologetics...when you lose an argument, defer to the age of the poster and and tell them to go eat some Trix. That'll get em AND boost your credibility!!

Trust me Scottie, you want me to keep in mind that GoodK is just a child. Otherwise I might be tempted to take him more seriously. I mean after this comment of his: "I'm a dumb kid who makes a lot of money. Wealth is an excellent way to keep score, Kevin. I wouldn't be surprised to see that I am beating you."

Why aren't you acknowledging the utter stupidity of this statement? Wealth is an excellent way to keep score in arguments! What's the philosophy here anyway, "I might be wrong and stupid, but at least I have money!"?

Try wrapping your mind around this and then get back to me. Again, it really helps to know I'm dealing with a cocky little punk who takes Zeitgeist seriously. He doesn't deserve thorough responses anymore than Schmo does.

I don't think that the stories are "exactly" the same, and I don't think Bill Maher actually believes that either.

Now look who is backing away. In order to save himself from the mess he put himself in, GoodK has to deny that what Maher said, is really what Maher believes, and he declares this as "just so," by the authority of his neighborhood psychic, apparently.

The fact is Maher wanted to show two billion Christians that their faith is based strictly on myth using a pithy comment. He knew he had limited time so he threw out what he felt was teh strongest evidence. The first thing that came to his mind was Horus! That tells us this much: Maher believes the "parallel" evidence between Horus and Christ is enough to condemn Jesus as a myth. This is horse crap pure and simple. Not only do very few historians believe Christ never really existed, even fewer believe the so-called Horus "parallels" is ample evidence to make that case.

GoodK's constant reference to "parallels" as though there are numerous and significant, is just a rhetorical technique for those who cannot actually present any meaningful examples. The vast majority are invented by the anti-Christians and have been shown to be nonsense based on unsupported translations from Massey, who wasn't an Egyptologist to begin with.

Would you please enumerate what it is exactly you want disproven, or rebutted? I'm having trouble zeroing in on what it is, exactly, that perturbs you so much about BM. I'll try, as the self-proclaimed American Atheist spokesperson, to answer your bullet list of complaints

Maher said the Christ story and the Horus story were "exactly" the same, and he went on to say Horus resurrected a man named Lazarus as well. So those two claims are horse crap. I don't want you to disprove it because it already has been. But anyone who wants to help Maher save face, can try to prove his statements to be true, but I wouldn't recommend it. Someone is already trying, and I don't think this thread is big enough for two morons.

[_Trevor]

In many cases yes, and that was ultimately what drove me away from the field. But apologetics is the act of defending something. Maher is on the offensive. Attacking religion in the spirit of George Carlin is something he spends a great deal of time, money and energy doing.

You may believe he is lying, but you do not know he is.

I saw George Carlin perform in Vegas. The man was hilarious.

[_dartagnan]

You may believe he is lying, but you do not know he is.

I have more evidence that he's lying than you do that he isn't. But technically, telling an untruth is lying, so he's lying. I don't throw about that word liberally, but in this case he deserves it.

I saw George Carlin perform in Vegas. The man was hilarious.

He was also a moron and a bigot. This is the same guy who, during the California fires, cheered on the flames. He's definately been the inspiration for Maher.

I thought he was funny when I was just a kid.

[_GoodK]

What's the philosophy here anyway, "I might be wrong and stupid, but at least I have money!"?

What happened, and we all saw it, was nothing new. I helped Kevin make himself look like an idiot, laughing at his rabid stupidity the whole time.

"Dart" is not even an amateur apologist, let alone a religious scholar. He gets his information from the same place I do, other subject matter experts. His expertise is in what, again?

My council to him would be this:

Don't pretend to be something you're not. You're way too old for that.

Mormon apologists don't even take him seriously.He is a virtual nobody.


Kevin thinks that saying I am a "kid" means something. What - exactly - he is implying is anyones guess.

Luckily, I am only 23 years old. I am doing well for 23, and awesome for a "kid."

I guess if it helps Kevin to imagine me like this and it makes him feel smarter... he can. It's not really accurate though, I'm a lot bigger these days. Christians don't really care about the truth or facts, though.

Just imagine, using Kevin's logic, how much better than him I'll be by the time I'm his age?

And of course wealth = score. Is there a problem with that?

Again, it really helps to know I'm dealing with a cocky little punk who takes Zeitgeist seriously

A cocky little punk?

This is coming from the person depicted in dartagnan's avatar.

The same person that whined like a little girl - no offense, ladies - about how his life was supposedly threatened by Mercury on this message board. The internet bully that turned out to be a little ninny cry baby with frilly panties.

The same person who uses insults like "idiot" and "moron" more than anyone else on this board -- from the safety of the milk crate he has propped up in front of his computer at an undisclosed, meek location.

Is he trying to be this funny?

I've said it before. Kevin is a phony.

He lifts other people's opinions from cheap websites like newsbusters and tektonics and tries to pass it off as his own "educated" conclusions here.

Whatever he happens to be bitching about - whether it be politics or religion - it's usually all nonsense.

His self-esteem is obviously in the toilet, given the unusual penchant for personal insults.

Did I forget anything?

Now regarding parallels, they exist, and even Kevin can't deny them. All he can do is call them "meaningless" - just like every other inconvenient detail that tickles his cognitive dissonance.

He had to make it seem like Bill Maher said every "exact" detail - presumably the name Jesus Christ as well - of Christianity was a duplicate of Egyptian mythology. That is not what Bill Maher said -- it's not even what Zeitgeist says! That is not what I believe.

When you are on the losing side of intellectual honesty, you have to make a big stink about how others aren't intellectual or honest to cover your tracks.

Exhibit A: Kevin

[_Gazelam]

For those interested in the View appearance, heres a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euafWnqidko

One thing your failing to realize it that there is a reason behind the similarities between Horus and The Savior. The Egyptians got many of their beliefs, including their temple ceremony, from Noahs writings. Not to mention Abrahams teachings to the court when he was there.

Nibley goes over much of Egypts mythology in his book



One thing that should be mentioned is the Father Gods son Being slain in a tree. His death brought about by his evil brother Set (Satan). And shortly after the son is brought back to life once again. These similarites were no doubt influenced by the prophecies of the true Son of God who would be slain on a tree and who would bring about the resurrection of the dead.

I am no fan of Bill Maher. From interviews I've only heard things that make him seem to me to be a horrible person, the least of which being his hatred of children. I do respect his ability to ask pointed questions in an intelligent manner. If only reporters in Washington DC were intelligent and brave enough to do the same.

[_Trevor]

I have more evidence that he's lying than you do that he isn't. But technically, telling an untruth is lying, so he's lying. I don't throw about that word liberally, but in this case he deserves it.

Unwittingly telling something that is not a fact is not a lie. It is an error of fact. If you have evidence to present that shows he is deliberately twisting the truth, I am open to it.

I thought he was funny when I was just a kid.

I thought he was funny when I saw him perform in Vegas. "Touched by an Atheist" was pretty funny too.

[_Trevor]

One thing your failing to realize it that there is a reason behind the similarities between Horus and The Savior. The Egyptians got many of their beliefs, including their temple ceremony, from Noahs writings. Not to mention Abrahams teachings to the court when he was there.

Of course, one has to believe that these things actually happened. The evidence that they did is not so good.

[_Jersey Girl]

GoodK

It's only "refuted horse****" if you are too dumb to recognize when the word "exactly" is being used hyperbolically.

Of course it's hyperbolic and the majority of viewers will treat it as gospel. There are no significant parallels in the Horus-Marduk-Christ.

None.

Zero.

Zip.

[_Jersey Girl]

Kevin, that was as entertaining and spectacular meltdown as I've ever seen!

New strategy for apologetics...when you lose an argument, defer to the age of the poster and and tell them to go eat some Trix. That'll get em AND boost your credibility!!

Bravo!

[Mod note: Could we all try and watch the swearing in the Terrestrial forum, please? This thread was VERY time consuming for me to clean up.]

What the flippin' hell is that, Scottie? Shouldn't you appear remotely neutral when admitting that you're editing posts from within as a moderator?

Why do you have to clean up anything in these posts when there's a censor mode?

Did you note your editing from within in the posts you changed? I didn't see any remarks to that effect.

What the hell?