The Mormon Gulag

[_marg]

Eric

http://antiwwasp.com/wwaspinfo.html

http://cafety.org/

http://isaccorp.org/


You may be aware of these web-sites and organizations, I had a brief look at them yesterday. Apparently Westridge Academy is not unique in the things mentioned on your web-site. I believe the stories but I’m having a difficult time appreciating the daily goings on at these places. Irrespective of verbal and physical abuse, I think it is wrong for a child to be sent to these places by a parent, away from their families and friends, and on top of that without any independent objective professional evaluation done to determine if indeed a problem actually exists to warrant going to such extremes. The schools obviously are motivated by money to accept as many kids as possible and will try to sell their program to parents. It’s also possible a parent or step parent may simply be wishing to get rid of a kid.

So were school classes held daily and for how many hours? How many kids in a class generally? Did teachers not observe the physical & verbal abuse going on outside of classrooms?

How many people worked at the place, including missionaries? How many of these people would be able to observe the physical and verbal abuse? Was everyone that worked there abusive or was it only a few who were?

[_TAK]

Two sets of full-time missionaries are staff there. They have their own offices but they don't live there. They live somewhere off campus. To their credit they were always really nice to us.

What percentage is non LDS? Are they there to convert?

[_GoodK]

So were school classes held daily and for how many hours? How many kids in a class generally? Did teachers not observe the physical & verbal abuse going on outside of classrooms?

I should clarify something. West Ridge Academy and the Utah Boys Ranch are two different places. They have a different staff and are only their during school hours. Not all boys attend school. It is considered a privilege.

How many people worked at the place, including missionaries? How many of these people would be able to observe the physical and verbal abuse? Was everyone that worked there abusive or was it only a few who were?

I'd say about 50 people are full time employees including the Utah Boys Ranch and West Ridge Academy. A lot of abuse occurred behind closed doors were other staff could not witness it. Not everyone that worked there was abusive. I am in touch and close with four former staff members that I consider good people.

What percentage is non LDS? Are they there to convert?

Staff? 0%. Boys, maybe 2%. Hardly any are not Mormon. They aren't there to convert. They are there to work with the boys. For instance, one of their jobs is to quiz boys on First Nephi to make sure they've read it, which is a requirement.

[_marg]

So were school classes held daily and for how many hours? How many kids in a class generally? Did teachers not observe the physical & verbal abuse going on outside of classrooms?

I should clarify something. West Ridge Academy and the Utah Boys Ranch are two different places. They have a different staff and are only their during school hours. Not all boys attend school. It is considered a privilege.

So when boys from Utah Boys Ranch attend West Ridge Academy they are in classrooms with boys attending who live in the area? If it is considered a privilege to attend do the majority of the Utah Boys Ranch attend with only a select few not attending? Are the places the Ranch and the Academny physically separated?

How many people worked at the place, including missionaries? How many of these people would be able to observe the physical and verbal abuse? Was everyone that worked there abusive or was it only a few who were?

I'd say about 50 people are full time employees including the Utah Boys Ranch and West Ridge Academy. A lot of abuse occurred behind closed doors were other staff could not witness it. Not everyone that worked there was abusive. I am in touch and close with four former staff members that I consider good people.

Of that 50 approx what percentage were abusive. And of those who were abusive, how many were extremely abusive. And when anyone from Utah Boys Ranch complained to anyone not abusive about the goings on behind doors what was their reaction?

[_Jersey Girl]

GoodK

I should clarify something. West Ridge Academy and the Utah Boys Ranch are two different places.

When searching for information online, I thought I saw a statement that the Utah Boys Ranch was renamed West Ridge Academy. Is that wrong?

They have a different staff and are only their during school hours. Not all boys attend school. It is considered a privilege.

What do you mean that not all boys attend school? School attendance is state mandated. Are boys who are not permitted to attend school, schooled individually or are you saying they are not schooled at all?

[_Dr. Shades]

I'm pretty sure I'm on this jokers foe list by now, but I would consider it a personal favor if a Mod moved [bcspace's] stupid comments to the Off Topic or Telestial, since they are either off topic or a personal attack. And just not healthy.

From a moderatorial viewpoint, each of his comments beyond the first were in response to someone saying something to him. Therefore, since he was merely responding, his comments have a very high level of immunity from being classified as "Off-Topic."

If people don't want to read his comments, then they ought to stop addressing their own comments to him, I think.

Anyway, back to the topic:

Of all the kids there, what percent do you think really needed to be there due to their excessively anti-social behaviors vs. the percent that were there unnecessarily, such as due to the normal teenage phases that Gadianton described?

Plus, please describe Chris Buttars for us. All I know about him is what I've read in the media. Please tell us about this guy, what sort of a person he is, and what he did during your tenure there.

[_GoodK]

So when boys from Utah Boys Ranch attend West Ridge Academy they are in classrooms with boys attending who live in the area?

No. Only boys from the Utah Boys Ranch attend West Ridge Academy.

If it is considered a privilege to attend do the majority of the Utah Boys Ranch attend with only a select few not attending?

More than a select few do not attend. No one goes there at first. It could be weeks or months before you get to go to school.

Are the places the Ranch and the Academny physically separated?

Not really.

Of that 50 approx what percentage were abusive. And of those who were abusive, how many were extremely abusive. And when anyone from Utah Boys Ranch complained to anyone not abusive about the goings on behind doors what was their reaction?

Now that I think about it it's closer to a hundred people, and I'd say at least 20 that I know were very abusive.

[_marg]

Of that 50 approx what percentage were abusive. And of those who were abusive, how many were extremely abusive. And when anyone from Utah Boys Ranch complained to anyone not abusive about the goings on behind doors what was their reaction?

Now that I think about it it's closer to a hundred people, and I'd say at least 20 that I know were very abusive.

Ok Eric, this is something I don't get. Let's say that the kids are afraid to complain to the 80 non-abusive staff about the extremely abusive 20 for fear of retribution. What about when they've left. the school? You've said yourself that you are in contact with 4 staff who you consider good people. Well then what are they doing to stop this abusive situation? And how can they be "good" if they continue to work there doing nothing about it? And don't former students contact staff once they are out, to tell them about the place.

I just can't see how 80 non abusive staff are allowing 20 to get away with extreme abuse.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I'm trying to understand it.

[_GoodK]

Are boys who are not permitted to attend school, schooled individually or are you saying they are not schooled at all?

Not schooled at all.

When searching for information online, I thought I saw a statement that the Utah Boys Ranch was renamed West Ridge Academy. Is that wrong?

Yes I believe that is a deliberate untruth.

From a moderatorial viewpoint, each of his comments beyond the first were in response to someone saying something to him.

Ya, I think the responses were something along the lines of shut up. But like I told liz, I was only half serious about moving his comments.

Of all the kids there, what percent do you think really needed to be there due to their excessively anti-social behaviors vs. the percent that were there unnecessarily, such as due to the normal teenage phases that Gadianton described?

I am adamant that none of the kids that were there needed to be there.

That place is every bit as horrible as I described. A small percentage needed to be in mental hospitals. A smaller percentage probably needed to be castrated. The majority just needed more responsible, involved parents.

Plus, please describe Chris Buttars for us. All I know about him is what I've read in the media. Please tell us about this guy, what sort of a person he is, and what he did during your tenure there.

I talk about him a lot in my book, so you'll have to check it out. We knew each other very, very well. I'll give a teaser in the chat room in a few minutes, but that's it. The stories about him are just too good.

[_GoodK]

Ok Eric, this is something I don't get. Let's say that the kids are afraid to complain to the 80 non-abusive staff about the extremely abusive 20 for fear of retribution.

"Manipulation" is the most serious offense at the ranch. I mentioned this briefly in the chat last night, and I talk about it a lot in my book.

What about when they've left. the school?

I don't know. What are they supposed to do? I'm doing the best I can to do something about it.

You've said yourself that you are in contact with 4 staff who you consider good people.

I am. They all have less than favorable things to say about the place.

Well then what are they doing to stop this abusive situation? And how can they be "good" if they continue to work there doing nothing about it?

Well, I said former staff. None of them still work there.
I don't know what they could do. I'm sure they'll support my cause, and participate in the movie.

And don't former students contact staff once they are out, to tell them about the place.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

I just can't see how 80 non abusive staff are allowing 20 to get away with extreme abuse.
I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I'm trying to understand it.

Well, it happens. You have to remember that there are math teachers that work there that do not interact with all the boys there. There are missionaries. There are accountants, receptionists, lunch ladies - people that just did their job that shouldn't be held responsible for everything bad that happened there. Most of the abuse was from the staff that ran "work crew."