how are there still gays?

[_bcspace]

If homosexuality is genetic, then it would've bred itself out long ago. Therefore, at best, it's an abberation.

How or why would it have bred itself out long ago?

By the gene not being passed on. The only other alternative seems to be that homosexuality is simply a deep, dark, perversion as no one is really homosexual.

[_Sethbag]

By the gene not being passed on. The only other alternative seems to be that homosexuality is simply a deep, dark, perversion as no one is really homosexual.

Did you not read what the Dude wrote? He presented one hypothetical already, out of various possibilities, of how a particular gene could cause, on the one hand, some people to be gay, but on the other hand lead to a large enough increase in babies by others who also have that gene that it gets selected, the gays notwithstanding. There are others. You're making unwarranted assumptions in jumping to the conclusion that any gene that influenced some people to be gay must disappear.

[_Dr. Shades]

And isn't it interesting that all of this comes on the heels of a deluge of 10 years of pornography. In the 90's it went from beign a dirty little secret to the cool thing to do. Nowadays kids in high school are watching it on their iphones on their lunch breaks with their friends.

They ARE??

Time to invest in an iPhone. . .

[_antishock8]

God is all powerful.

God is all knowing.

God creates all.

Gays exist.

God wants gays to exist. He creates them. He knows what he's doing.

[_harmony]

Time to invest in an iPhone. . .

You can watch it on your blackberry, too, if you are so inclined. Which is how I access Mormon Discussions when I'm without a computer.

[_dartagnan]

How are there any gays left?

Never heard of homosexual porn?

[_Sethbag]

007, you've questioned my assertion that some Mormons believe that the ultimate goal of the "gay agenda" is the conversion of heterosexuals to homosexuality. Have you failed to notice how Gazelam came around and basically proved my very point?

Here's what you said:

You must know a very different group of Mormons (or any anti-homosexual agenda people) than I do because I have never heard that homosexuals are trying to turn the rest of us into homosexuals. I think you need to provide some actual evidence that Mormon's espouse this point of view.

Along comes Gaz and says:

Your seeing an increase in homosexuality because of the exposure of it as something that is normal.

Harmony said:

1. please prove there has been an increase in homosexuality.

To which Gaz replied:

1) has it always been normal to see a pair of bulldykes holding hands and shopping to gether at the grocery store? That is a new experience for me here in the suburbs.

Lest anyone fail to understand what's being said here, Gaz thinks that homosexuality is on the rise (and this is a zero-sum game - if there are more homosexuals as a proportion of the population, it can only come by the "conversion" of heterosexuals), and he thinks that part of the reason for this is the increased acceptance toward homosexuality on the part of the media.

************************************************************

Oh, and Dart: do you agree or disagree that exposure to homosexuality in the media is viewed as making it more likely for heterosexuals to "convert" to homosexuality?

I do find it funny that you'd mention gay porn. Ok, so utter bombardment in all aspects of the media and popular culture with heterosexuality isn't enough to convert the gays to straightness, but a little gay porn scattered around here and there actually generates homos? Sorry, this is crazy talk.

[_Danna]

Because gay people feel compelled to live "normal" heterosexual lifestyles, and as a consequence they pass on the gay gene.

As the Dude's (well validated) theory is quite probably correct, then Mike's scenario would be quite logical in a culture where hetero marriage was virtually compulsory. So modern fundamentalist cultures would now have TWO means of ensuring the gene is passed on. One would expect an increase in gayness, no?

Is this an odd situation? - there are 10 surviving children in my family. We have one all-gay (I nearly wrote 'straight gay') brother. One all-lesbian sister. A brother who was undecided until he settled on straight in his 20s, and a 40ish sister who calls herself 'ambidextrous' (she is very 'feminine', so boyfriends/husbands outnumber girlfriends). There is also a strong autistic/Aspergers streak (why I follow a link, and end up writing a 2000 word essay on it). I have not come across a gay brother and lesbian sister in the same family before.

To keep it on the OP, we were all raised porn-free in a strictly LDS family. Most of the time there was not even a TV, and the olds didn't get the internet until the kids had all gone. Needless to say TBM mum is not too happy with 0/10 activity rate given the intense religious focus of our authroritarian, physically disciplined, semi home-schooled upbringing! Can't fight them genes!

[_dartagnan]

Oh, and Dart: do you agree or disagree that exposure to homosexuality in the media is viewed as making it more likely for heterosexuals to "convert" to homosexuality?

Of course, for the same reason more people have tattoos than they did 30 years ago. And tongue rings, and dress more promiscuously, etc. Culture has standardized behaviors that were once deemed inappropriate. But I do believe, and I've expressed this elsewhere on this forum, that some homosexual desire is genetic. Genetic defects have given us humans born with male and female sexual organs, so why is it hard to imagine sexual desire getting lost somewhere in there as well?

I just believe it can also be based on exposure and adaptation, for the same reasons some women can be talked into and adapt to anal sex. Generally speaking, they don't like it at first, but it is becoming more and more standardized in today's sexual culture. "Never go ass to mouth" was a quote from the film Clerks II. Rosario Dawson said, "well maybe sometimes." There is simply no way this would have appeared in film 20 years ago. The activity is learned in many cases.

Did anyone see Madonna's book, "Sex"? Oddly enough, one of my companions received a copy on his mission from an anti-Mormon uncle. Our entire district gawked at it and I suspect my companion masturbated to it. This was 18 years ago. It consisted of little more than journal entries and photos. Photos were black and white of her engaging in sex with grizzly bikers in bars, with super stars like Naomi Campbell on the beach, etc. Kids get this and see it as cool.

And now we have ghetto rap (a.k.a. "Hip Hop") taking over the music industry. One of the first things these kids do is read the lyrics. For them, that's the coolest and most inspiring part of it. Do you think the "Notorious B.I.G" was popular because he had a good singing voice? Or 50 cent? Or Puff Daddy? Aside from all being former crack dealers, they rely strictly on "street credit" to earn the respect of our next generation of adults. Ludicrous is another rapper whose lyrics are disgusting and demeaning towards women. Girls in High School today have pregnancy contests like its no big deal. They accept proudly the "Ho" label, since, those are the cool girls that show up on rap videos.

So yes, culture does have an impact on how people engage in every aspect of living, including sexual. And I think history makes it perfectly clear the country is becoming more and more morally bankrupt. It shouldn't be much of a surprise that this is taking place during the intellectual revolution of secular progressives.

Incidentally, I was reading this article published today about a man in Oregon exposing himself to children because it is no longer against the law to do so. "According to Oregon law, such public displays of nudity do not become a crime until the person engages in sexual intercourse publicly or attempts to arouse sexual desire with their self or another person."

Amazing.

I do find it funny that you'd mention gay porn. Ok, so utter bombardment in all aspects of the media and popular culture with heterosexuality isn't enough to convert the gays to straightness, but a little gay porn scattered around here and there actually generates homos? Sorry, this is crazy talk.

Huh? I am referring to your initial post and your question: "Ok, so if all of this (heterosexual) sex exposure is going on in this country, how are there still any gay people left?"

All I said is that pornography isn't exclusively heterosexual. For those interested in pornography, homosexual porn is just as accessible as hetero.

[_dblagent007]

007, you've questioned my assertion that some Mormons believe that the ultimate goal of the "gay agenda" is the conversion of heterosexuals to homosexuality. Have you failed to notice how Gazelam came around and basically proved my very point?

Here's what you said:

You must know a very different group of Mormons (or any anti-homosexual agenda people) than I do because I have never heard that homosexuals are trying to turn the rest of us into homosexuals. I think you need to provide some actual evidence that Mormon's espouse this point of view.

Along comes Gaz and says:

Your seeing an increase in homosexuality because of the exposure of it as something that is normal.

Harmony said:

1. please prove there has been an increase in homosexuality.

To which Gaz replied:

1) has it always been normal to see a pair of bulldykes holding hands and shopping to gether at the grocery store? That is a new experience for me here in the suburbs.

Lest anyone fail to understand what's being said here, Gaz thinks that homosexuality is on the rise (and this is a zero-sum game - if there are more homosexuals as a proportion of the population, it can only come by the "conversion" of heterosexuals), and he thinks that part of the reason for this is the increased acceptance toward homosexuality on the part of the media.

I see Gaz's responses as acknowledging that the homosexual agenda is to remove the moral opprobrium society has attached to homosexual behavior (i.e., has it always been normal to see a pair of bulldykes holding hands and shopping together at the grocery store?). I don't see anything to support the idea that homosexuals are on some kind of crusade to make everyone else gay too. I think that was your ridiculous charicature of Mormons.