First experience with the Holy Ghost

[_Danna]

After really trying, but just not getting it during my pretty strict Mormon upbringing, a few years after I realised that Mormonism did not make sense, and that God must be smarter than that, I had a true spiritual experiance.

Dad had marched me down to the Army recruiting office at 17, to sort me out. At about 22, I had been on a field exercise for a couple of weeks. Walking, lugging a pack, digging, not much sleep. Had an injured foot, and was bleeding into my boot, Raw patches on my back and shoulders. Had gone through less than one ratpack in the last week and was drupping weight like crazy. I was sitting on a log at the rear of the section, while the section commander worked out where we were. The bush was beautiful. really quiet. I imagined a band around my ankle, that stopped the pain from my foot. Bugger me it worked. My foot felt great. I went on, imagining strength and no pain throughout the rest of my body. It was just amazing. The rest of the exercise was great. I went from dragging along because I didn't want to let Dad down, to having an amazing experience. Total attitude change. I knew a total conviction that I was on the right path.

Stayed in for another 13 years. With hindsight, I could have made better choices, but at the time it was working for me. The feeling was probably due to the immediate physical circumstances, but I linked it to the larger question of what the hell was I doing sitting on a log waiting for some nongo to work out where the next RV was. Had I actually had that sort of experience while praying, or in church, it would have been harder to see the facts straight.

Have only ever recreated the 'holy ghost' feeling when in the bush. Isolated from all smaller or larger 'worries', just sorting out here and now and just connected in a big way to the wider world.

[_TAK]

I had on my mission many warm glowing feelings that I attributed to the Holy Ghost..

My last however was during a ward event w/ an investigator family and we were watching the Disney Cartoon - Sword and the Stone and the Holy Ghost confirmed the truthfullness with that same warm glowing feeling that young Arthur, had indeed pulled the sword out of the stone.

Needless to say, the last six months of the mission were a bitch..

[_Thama]

Well, my experiences with the Holy Ghost always had a remarkable correlation with me wanting very, very badly to have a spiritual experience in order to validate my faith. Once I stopped needing it to be true, and simply studied and prayed wanting to know either way, the good feelings stopped coming -- leading me to believe that they were emotions manufactured by my desperation.

[_harmony]

I've had several experiences with the HG. Only once did the experience include a feeling of warmth, and that was when I was desperately yelling at God when my son had cancer. I was immediately showered with warmth and comfort. I'll never forget that feeling. It's a feeling I never had in conjunction with the LDS church (or any other church), the temple, or a priesthood blessing. It's personal, no institutional.

The other times were clear indications of something I needed to do... danger to my oldest daughter (three times), danger to a helpless neighbor child, danger to a son, the day my father died...

More often than anything else, it's about decisions.

[_Scottie]

That was all the faith I needed to show. I instantly went from feeling hopeless to feeling all warm and fuzzy inside.

Why do LDS so often equate the Holy Spirit with feelings of warmth and comfort? Do LDS not allow for other types of feelings as evidence of the Holy Spirit testifying?

Whenever I mention to LDS that I have never received the sure witness from the Holy Ghost, but I have had good, warm feelings, they chide me that I am looking too hard for an answer, and that those feelings WERE the answer.

Yet, when I ask what makes their experience different than a warm feeling, it is always something so much deeper that can't be explained. It was most definitely NOT just a warm feeling, but something distinct and unmistakable.

I don't know of any exmo's who will say they never got a warm feeling, or clarity of thought or any of the other generic buzzwords used to describe the spirit. But most still get them even now that they are out of the church.

[_Scottie]

The other times were clear indications of something I needed to do... danger to my oldest daughter (three times), danger to a helpless neighbor child, danger to a son, the day my father died...

This is one aspect of the spirit that I have yet to fully explain.

I am good friends with a girl whose car was stolen with her infant daughter in the back seat. It made the news here in Utah.

Well, the story she told (which is a bit different than the story the news told) was that a blue collar worker (I think he was construction) saw the news story on the TV and had an overwhelming feeling that he needed to find this baby. So he got in his car and at every intersection, he prayed which way to turn. The spirit guided him right to the parked car in an underground parking center and they were able to get the baby out.

There are thousands of these stories where someone gets a prompting, and by heeding it, they were able to avoid disaster.

[_The Dude]

As for myself, having grown up in the church, the Holy Ghost was kind of always around. I just didn't know what I knew.

It wasn't until I started out on my mission that I learned what I already knew. A little further into things I had to put Moronis test to the test,

and it payed off big time.
.

My experience was much like yours, from the sound of it. I got ready for my mission without really knowing what the Holy Ghost felt like. Then in the MTC I prayed and prayed and the answer I thought I got was: you've already felt the Holy Ghost for much of your life and just didn't realize it. Wow, you mean all this time the HG was there and I'd been missing it?! So I easily reevaluated my life up to that point and reinterpreted experiences as having the presence of the HG.

It was almost too easy.

Then, when I left the church, I just as easily re-reevaluated my life up to that point and re-reinterpreted experiences as having simple, natural emotions without any mystical presence looking over my shoulder.

Yep, it was too easy. Easy come, easy go.

I think it is pretty common for people to never have the big spiritual payoff, and to instead settle for "oh, but I've known it was true all along, I just didn't know it." I bet the percentage with this kind of narrative is well above 50%.

[_Gadianton]

I had to put Moronis test to the test, and it payed off big time.

By whose standards?

[_Phaedrus Ut]

Mine came when I was first initially studying the Book of Mormon. I read, studied and prayed. I felt a sense of conviction and clarity that the church was true and Joseph Smith could not have written the book by himself. I had experiences with the holy ghost at my baptism, my ordination, my endowment, giving priesthood blessings, working in the temple.

I've since had similar experiences since watching crazy televangelists on TV, in Buddhist meditation practice, in a liberal christian church with a lesbian pastor, reading a novel, watching my children play, and in various random situations.

At the time I was convinced that my experiences were confirmation of the authenticity of The Church. Hindsight tells me that if you try really hard to feel a religious experience.... you'll likely find it.


Phaedrus

// I don't discount the spiritual confirmation Mormon's claim. I do find it naïve that they think people in other religions don't get the very same confirmations.

[_Ray A]

This is what Blake Ostler wrote about Bob Mc Cue, in his article, Spiritual Experiences as the Basis for Belief and Commitment

I'm going to quote from Bob McCue, a former bishop who lost his testimony. I think it's very revealing, and Bob has put this on the net so I assume he wants it to be consumed.

I have had many intense, moving spiritual experiences that given the premises of the Mormon belief system ... should be expected to buttress the belief that Mormonism was literally true and so increase the force of denial in my life. These experiences include the lost of sense of self Newberg et al. Describe in "Why God Won't Go Away." that I have had many times while praying about the Book of Mormon and in other Mormon religious contexts. During these moments I felt connected to a source of love and peace that was at times overpowering and more attractive than anything else I have felt. I also had many experiences while serving in various church leadership capacities and particularly while serving as a Bishop, during which I felt like I was the conduit of 'pure knowledge' while counseling those in need or while giving priesthood blessings. One particularly powerful experience occurred as I prepared to officiate and speak at a particularly tragic funeral. I still marvel at the power I felt, and insights that came to me, at that time. Finally, I had many intensely moving experiences in a family context while giving priesthood blessings.... How can we understand experiences of this nature? How can such seemingly wonderful moments spring from something as bankrupt as literalist Mormonism seems to be? Are these experiences "good fruits" that indicate God's hand somehow works through Mormonism despite all of its obvious difficulties?

Now the explanation--I'm not making this up:

I am a person who has what some may have called a big "God spot" in my brain. I have not been tested, but I would expect the activity rates in this part of my brain to be above the norm. This is likely in part genetic, and in part related to how I was raised. But even within the faithful Mormon population, my tendencies toward things of an emotional or spiritual nature was above average. It is my belief that in general the Mormon population has more "god spot" activity than the rest of the population. This would be the result of conditioning forces exerted on Mormons week after week as they attend Mormon activities... I believe that what are assumed to be spiritual experiences result from brain dysfunctions, such as temporal lobe epilepsy. (Bob McCue "How Denial Works. Denial in General and Mormon Denial in Particular. Unpublished Ms., 29 Nov. 2005.)

Now if that weren't so absurd you'd think I was making it up, and the tragic thing is that Bob McCue actually believes that's the explanation for his experiences. The tragic thing for McCue, even more tragic, is that the "God Spot" theory has been disproved; it has no validity whatsoever, it hasn't been replicated. The first suggestions were based upon faulty reasoning altogether, and yet this becomes the explanation for the fact that, in a tragic moment, ideas flowed into him and he had power beyond himself to give comfort to a family in need. How does the "God Spot" explain that? It's tragic, because he believes such nonsense and yet this is precisely what our culture is imbibed with. It's all nurture or nature and all contained simply within the brain; that's the explanation, full stop.

I believe that spiritual experience is a valid basis for belief. But I don't believe that Three Nephites ever existed, nor, for that matter, Nephi.