Something Farms/MI could actually prove...

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_bcspace
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Re: Something Farms/MI could actually prove...

Post by _bcspace »

BC, what would it mean for you if this story were false?


Nothing at all.

You seem to be the only apologist who is even attempting to defend it. And you really don't have much of a defense.


Well, my thoery has always been that our critics lie, exagerate, create strawman arguements, or do lazy research. Considering the OP, I am right again.

That I don't have much of a defense is only in your mind apparently. I actually went and did what the OP suggested and I did it with a more difficult payload (the awkward shape of a long bar).

If, in your mind, this story were false, would Mormonism be false also? Why the need to so vigorously defend it? Why not simply say, "Yeah, this story seems a bit far fetched?"


There certainly is room for exaggeration in the account. Problem is, the only proof of exaggeration so far comes from the critical side.
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_antishock8
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Re: Something Farms/MI could actually prove...

Post by _antishock8 »

Now take a 45 lbs weight, wrap it in a coat, tuck it under your arm, and reproduce the story's travails. Return and report.

And no, the plates' weight haven't been determined to be anything other than somewhere between 40-200 lbs.
You can’t trust adults to tell you the truth.

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_Pokatator
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Re: Something Farms/MI could actually prove...

Post by _Pokatator »

BC how about a youtube in the style of Kerry Shirts?
I think it would be morally right to lie about your religion to edit the article favorably.
bcspace
_antishock8
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Re: Something Farms/MI could actually prove...

Post by _antishock8 »

Pokatator wrote:BC how about a youtube in the style of Kerry Shirts?


That dude ain't gonna do anything 'cept run his fat mouth. That's the bottom line. He ain't fit. He didn't carry a bar down the block and back. He's not going to wrap a 45 lbs weight in a jacket and run around with it.

He's full of crap. Just like Joseph Smith was. Just like Peterson is. Just like Mormonism is. They want you to accept their word, and that's that. That's the whole schtick. It was when I was a missionary. It's still the same modus operandi today. It's the only way a sham can work is if assholes act indignant at having been asked to prove a claim, and someone allows himself to be cowed into compliance. It's ridiculous.

Jesus. Assholes.
You can’t trust adults to tell you the truth.

Scream the lie, whisper the retraction.- The Left
_Pokatator
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Re: Something Farms/MI could actually prove...

Post by _Pokatator »

antishock8 wrote:
Pokatator wrote:BC how about a youtube in the style of Kerry Shirts?


That dude ain't gonna do anything 'cept run his fat mouth. That's the bottom line. He ain't fit. He didn't carry a bar down the block and back. He's not going to wrap a 45 lbs weight in a jacket and run around with it.

He's full of s***. Just like Joseph Smith was. Just like Peterson is. Just like Mormonism is. They want you to accept their word, and that's that. That's the whole schtick. It was when I was a missionary. It's still the same modus operandi today. It's the only way a sham can work is if assholes act indignant at having been asked to prove a claim, and someone allows himself to be cowed into compliance. It's ridiculous.

Jesus. Assholes.


I am in total agreement with you here. Like I told BC earlier.....
BullDog mouth ..... Pekingese ass
I think it would be morally right to lie about your religion to edit the article favorably.
bcspace
_Maxrep
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Re: Something Farms/MI could actually prove...

Post by _Maxrep »

bcspace wrote:
So anyway, the gym I go to is just a bike ride away from my house. The owner is LDS too and we were intrigued so both he and I ran up the street 4 blocks (1/2 mile) each with a bar over our shoulder. We went at a pretty good clip without stopping until the end and both agreed it would be much easier if the weight was confined to 8 x 7 x 4 inches but nevertheless, we did it.

So the bottom line is that the story is quite plausible indeed. by the way, thanks for being brave enough to provide the actual story (which doesn't seem to match the OP very well) despite the fact that the details didn't make it implausible.

Ha! Just saw this thread from Phaedrus Ut when he posted a link here on the "Internet Tough Guy" thread.

BC, yes 240lb is commendable. Your re-enactment is the physical equivalent of a strawman fallacy though. May I "one up you" to establish some experience here?

As a pre mission 18 year old, I competed at the California teen state championships with the intent to set the teen state record in the dead lift. My opening bench press in the 148lb class, was 270lb. In competition the bar has to remain motionless on your chest for 1 second before a judge gives the command to press. In the gym, I could do a 315lb press without the one second pause at 148lb.

It needs to be pointed out that todays athletes are larger and stronger than men during the 1800's. Lack of consistent nutrition caused men to be much smaller back then, despite the nature of physical work they engaged in. This means that 60-80lb to you or I, was much more of a significant load to Joseph. You went with a scant 45lb bar over the shoulders, which is a much easier positional hold. Carrying a small stack of plates requires that your hands maintain a right angle grip, difficult and extremely fatiguing to the forearms while running.

If you have any plans to give this reenactment another go, I will volunteer to be your first attacker. :biggrin:

P.S. I've raced with One of Lance's teammates as a pro cyclist....which means I could chase you down and beat the tar out of you while holding my breath, you know, in the spirit of replicating this historical run of Josephs. Heh heh, Mormon legends..... Do you really have any idea of the impossible nature of this tall tale?
Last edited by Aristotle Smith on Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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_Cylon
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Re: Something Farms/MI could actually prove...

Post by _Cylon »

Ha! I recently started reading Rough Stone Rolling and just this morning I read the account of this event. Even reading Bushman's take on it, I thought "yeah, that's pretty far fetched. Not buying it." I mean, really? Escaping three men, one of whom got the drop on him and knocked him down, all while carrying a 50 lb weight and running on a bum leg? Let's just chalk this one up to creative exaggeration and move on.
_lulu
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Re: Something Farms/MI could actually prove...

Post by _lulu »

bcspace wrote:a big strapping farm boy like Joseph Smith probably was......

CFR
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
_Maxrep
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Re: Something Farms/MI could actually prove...

Post by _Maxrep »

lulu wrote:
bcspace wrote:a big strapping farm boy like Joseph Smith probably was......

CFR

"Big strapping" - BC, have you been looking at those ridiculous drawings in the illustrated Book of Mormon recently?

In Josephs time, there was no "Big Strapping" as you put it. Both men and women were noticeably smaller during those times. Its highly doubtful you could squeeze yourself into one of josephs jackets, due to chest measurements and arm girth. During this time period, women also experienced menses many years later than todays norm.

Skeletal growth and muscular maturity were limted during adolescence in the 1800's and a good portion of the 1900's as well. This was due to limited nutrition/ caloric intake/ protien. A simple tour of temple square illustrates this. The sister missionaries leading the tours will point out that the tabernacle used to hold twice the number of occupants during the early days of the church. Today a healthy adult has a much larger skeletal and muscular structure.

Can you look into this BC, and have the courtesy to verify?
I don't expect to see same-sex marriage in Utah within my lifetime. - Scott Lloyd, Oct 23 2013
_RockSlider
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Re: Something Farms/MI could actually prove...

Post by _RockSlider »

lulu wrote:
bcspace wrote:a big strapping farm boy like Joseph Smith probably was......

CFR



http://www.LDS.org/new-era/1971/12/stic ... s?lang=eng
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