harmony wrote:And Pres Monson is no doubt feeling the sting of yet another unofficial talk floating around his church. He needs to get a bit more control over his Brethren. They're sounding more and more like men every day.
"like men" They are like men because they are men. (Called prophets seers and whatever.)
"to get a bit more control over" This leads to something well known as socialism. You know, socialism is not about owning goods, socialism is not about distributing ("redistributing") goods. Socialism is about control. See Orwell: Nineteen Eighty-Four. I used to live in it.
(Droopy can shout: Leftist, leftist.)
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
So when was the last time any of the prophets, seers and revelators spoke as a prophet, seer or revelator?
General conference? Does this mean that we can assume divine guidance of general conference talks (which have gone through the correlation committee of course)
Actually, my parents have proof that Thomas Monson is a prophet. Apparently he visited NZ at some point when my little brother (Kahu) was an infant, met the family, and told my parents that Kahu would play the guitar when he grew up. Sure enough, Kahu does indeed play the guitar. I am not too popular when I point out that the probability of a Maori boy NOT playing the guitar is pretty low. Pity he couldn't tell them anything actually useful - like, "buy land in Nelson".
Rollo Tomasi wrote:President Boyd K. Packer's Office indicated that the report of his talk of Sunday, October 12, 2008, that is being distributed is not accurate.
Interesting that they refrained telling us how it isn't accurate.
He has only followed the prophet (in this case a dead one but we forgive him).
GBH has done the same after the "I_don't_know_if_we_teach_it" interview. He said that he were cited incorrectly but he didn't give any particular.
Minority report: If any church - even the only true - says
Any notes made when General Authorities, Area Seventies, or other general Church officers(read: everybody who count for something) speak at regional and stake conferences or other meetings should not be distributed without the consent of the speaker.
then there are general problems.
If I were a prophet - fortunately I am not - then every word I said from the pulpit were scripture. (I'm sorry, brother Brigham Young for stealing Your words.)
There is a hungarian proverb : Fish stinks from the head on. You can read it (and 749 other) here.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
skippy the dead wrote:So either he's a mouthpiece for God or he isn't. If what he said in that talk was so very important (or just inspired by God), it should be published for the general good of the church. If it wasn't, then the church shouldn't hide behind claims of erroneous reports, but should disavow it completely. Sounds like a bit of eating one's cake and keeping it, too.
It's a matter of control. SLCentral didn't have control over the content, the delivery, or the transcription, and they sure didn't have control over the dispersal. That which they cannot control they will not support.
This talk (not testimony) is as useful as any talk given from any pulpit in the church on any given Sunday... which is to say: not at all useful. That's gotta sting BKP.
I wonder if it was meant to fall into the "true but not very useful" category. (Harmony, if that's what you were alluding to I apologise for being so obtuse.)
NOMinal member
Maksutov: "... if you give someone else the means to always push your buttons, you're lost."
Gadianton wrote:In a church where the brethren can't reveal anything beyond a political agenda, who can blame the Saints for latching on to any little bit of possibility that their leaders know something the general population doesn't?
How 'corporate' the LDS Church has become. There once was a time when we believed "that a prophet is a prophet only when he was acting as such." (Words of Joseph Smith, as recorded in History of the Church, 5:265). Nowadays, it seems more like "a prophet is a prophet only when he is acting through the correlation committee." And lest there be any misunderstanding about whether BKP was talking as a "man" or as an "apostle sustained as a prophet, seer and revelator" (and just a heartbeat away from Church president), note that he began his "talk" by stating he felt "moved upon by the Spirit to share a message," and concluded his "talk" by pronouncing "an apostolic blessing."
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."
-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
Rollo Tomasi wrote:President Boyd K. Packer's Office indicated that the report of his talk of Sunday, October 12, 2008, that is being distributed is not accurate.
Interesting that they refrained telling us how it isn't accurate.
President Packer has not approved the report of his talk or authorized its distribution.
"Inaccurate" and "unapproved" are not mutually inclusive categories. Just because it's not approved doesn't mean it's not accurate.
Right. The funny thing is the press release tells us that we should not distribute without seeking official verification. However, the statements have also been carefully worded with weasel words to neither confirm nor deny the content.
Thank God for prophets to guide us in these latter days.
So... you think it's okay for some random old guy to get up in Fast and Testimony meeting and give a long drawn out talk, to not bear his testimony, to hog a great deal of the time so no one else had the chance to get up and bear theirs... after we've been told by SLCentral to keep testimonies short. It makes no difference whether the old guy was an apostle or not. This was not the time or place for a talk of this nature. This talk took at least 10 minutes. That's 2-3 testimonies in my ward. If he felt things needed to be said, they needed to be said to more than his ward; they need to be said to the whole church.
Yea I think it is ok if an apostle takes the lion's share of a time in a FT meeting, if indeed he did.
Of course I am. And Pres Monson is no doubt feeling the sting of yet another unofficial talk floating around his church. He needs to get a bit more control over his Brethren. They're sounding more and more like men every day.
Feeling a bit more cranky about things today? Ya know I love ya Harm but I do wonder how you stay LDS at times with as much hostility as you have about LDS leaders.
Jason Bourne wrote:Feeling a bit more cranky about things today?
How well you know me. Yes, I was a bit under the weather, and no doubt came across as even more cranky than usual.
Ya know I love ya Harm but I do wonder how you stay LDS at times with as much hostility as you have about LDS leaders.
Well, I've never been a fan of BKP. And you know why I stay LDS.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
Well, I've never been a fan of BKP. And you know why I stay LDS.
Yea I know....and I know BKP is a tough fellow to be warm and fuzzy about. Even his collegues refer to him as a grizzly bear.
Grizzly bears, ironically, are warm and fuzzy.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.
LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.