Book of Mormon Hypothetical: How would LDS respond?

[_Jersey Girl]

I'm going to give you a hard time :-)

Gaz

Of coarse God speaks directly to individuals. If he didn't, then no one could exercise their faith enough to have a testimony of anything. The Holy Ghost is God.

I would agree with that.

But what does God say? Is he not going to tell someone to be baptised and take upon themselves the name of Christ?

Already did it.

And if someone is to be baptised then they need to have the ordinance performed by an authorised servant of the Lord.

Where is that stated in the Bible?

Also if God is speaking to his authorised servants, than scripture is going to continue to come forth,

When God speaks to you via the Holy Spirit (Ghost) do you produce scripture?

Angels are going to visit the earth,

What does angelic visitation have to do with God speaking? (you're veering off the road there)

Temples will be built,

Temples were built in ancient times as they are today. Are you saying that God has to speak in order for that to happen? Did God speak to Pagans prior to their constructing Temples?

and prophets and apostles will be present as they were in times past

Why? Why isn't John 14 and the promise of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit enough for you when the promise of it was apparently enough for Jesus Christ prior to his leaving this earth?

Gods authority and covenants will be made available to his people.

Already done.

[_Jersey Girl]

Gaz,

I'm going to isolate this one question from the post above so you won't miss it.

Why isn't John 14 and the promise of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit enough for you when the promise of it was apparently enough for Jesus Christ prior to his leaving this earth?
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[_Ray A]

If the Book of Mormon is not what it says, there is no God.

Gaz, according to experts the observable universe is 156 billion light years across. In other words, if you were to travel at the speed of light, it would take you 156 billion years to go from one "end" to the other.

And if one book on planet earth isn't true - there is no God?

[_Gazelam]

On authority:

Where is that stated in the Bible?

Mark 13:34, John 15:16, Acts 13:1-3, Acts 14:23, Luke 10:1

On Scripture:

When God speaks to you via the Holy Spirit (Ghost) do you produce scripture?

For myself, yes. I am not authorised to produce scripture for others though. If my children read what I write and it increases their faith, all the better.

On Angels:

What does angelic visitation have to do with God speaking?

Angels are a byproduct of God working with his servants (Gen.18)

Temples:

Temples were built in ancient times as they are today. Are you saying that God has to speak in order for that to happen?

Temples are a place where God can make his covenants with man and appear to his prophets to instruct them in the administration of his kingdom. So yes, God has to speak for a true temple to function.

The need for prophets:

Why? Why isn't John 14 and the promise of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit enough for you when the promise of it was apparently enough for Jesus Christ prior to his leaving this earth?

The Holy Ghost comes by the laying on of hands by those in authority. A great example is the story of Apollos found in Acts chp. 18. He had the Spirit of the Light of Christ in him, and did great work while in that Spirit. (Acts 18:24-25)

But in chp. 19: 1-6 we see that this was not enough. A prophet performed his duty and revealed to them the need for further ordinances and responsibilities. He informed them that they needed to be baptised again into the name of Christ, and that they needed hands laid upon them for the reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost. This laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost is the second part of a baptism ( John 3:5).

The outpouring of the Holy Ghost comes by the laying on of hands by an authorised servant. Prophets and Apostles are necessary and come whenever Gods church is functioning on the earth. Find his servants, and you find his house where you can enter into covenant with him, receive his spiritual gifts, and take his name upon you.

[_Gazelam]

Ray,

Define "Keystone of our religion" for me.

[_Ray A]

Ray,

Define "Keystone of our religion" for me.

I got no argument with that, Gaz.

I just don't see how if one religion on earth fails to be true, that God could not exist. It's sort of like a Catholic saying that if the Pope isn't true, then God doesn't exist. Or a Muslims saying that if the Qur'an isn't true, God could not exist.

[_harmony]

I just don't see how if one religion on earth fails to be true, that God could not exist. It's sort of like a Catholic saying that if the Pope isn't true, then God doesn't exist. Or a Muslims saying that if the Qur'an isn't true, God could not exist.

It's called ethnocentrism, Ray. And Mormons, Catholics, Muslims, and every other group that thinks they alone have God's authority is guilty of it.

[_Gazelam]

Ray,

I just don't see how if one religion on earth fails to be true, that God could not exist. It's sort of like a Catholic saying that if the Pope isn't true, then God doesn't exist. Or a Muslims saying that if the Qur'an isn't true, God could not exist.

How can you excercise faith in a God that is not a God of order? For a Catholic to find out that the Pope is false is no big deal, I think most of them half assume that anyway. They still have the option of another Church being true.

There are only three churchs that can be true. Either the Jews never lost the authority, or the Catholics retained it from Christ, or the Mormons restored it. Christ declared the jewish faith to be apostate, and sought to restore the faith through his servants. History shows how the catholic faith was stillborn and has done little to show that the spirit of God dwells within it.

In the Sacred Grove Joseph Smith met and spoke with both the Father and the Son. The very fact that he saw them both standing side by side was a huge doctrinal restoration as the the very nature of our Creator.

The Book of Mormon is the greatest evidence of the truth of the declaration that the gospel of Christ has been restored. For it to be shown that it is not what it declares itself to be means that God does not speak, and a God that is mute is no God at all.

[_Ray A]

Christ declared the jewish faith to be apostate, and sought to restore the faith through his servants.

I'm writing a reply for another thread, Gaz, but maybe you could explain the above. Where did Christ declare Judaism apostate?

[_Sethbag]

Is it really possible to tune that sort of thing out?

Most of them have managed to tune out Joseph Smith propositioning other mens' wives behind their backs, and inventing the Book of Abraham. Why wouldn't they be able to tune out Book of Mormon evidence?

And, really, they sort of have tuned out Book of Mormon evidence, haven't they? I mean, there's no evidence that the Book of Mormon peoples ever existed, and most Mormons won't even discuss that if you try talking with them about it.