A Challenge For Gazelam

[_Sam Harris]

You are truly pathetic, if you were looking for a job or selling some stuff to me I'd probably waste couple minutes with you.
You do not posses capability to understand whatever you say or do.

Solo, the above quote about Jersey Girl just isn't true. You can disagree with her, but Jersey Girl is hardly an imbecile. Goodness.

KA

And this is why the ignore feature is so nice. Some people just can't disagree, they have to get personal.

I truly feel for some of these folks who have left the church, because they can't let go of the pain and anger...or they won't. They see people who have found peace in other forms of faith as weak, but they don't see the weakness in themselves when they pepper every post with epithets and references to mentally retarded children, not to mention female body parts, just because they're "free of the church's clutches" and they can.

That's what most of the heated exchange boils down to here. They are no longer "held back by the guilt-trips of the church", so they do and say whatever they want, thinking that there is no consequence.

[_Gazelam]

Sorry I'm late to the party. I started to read this thread last night, but had to leave.

Kim,

About 3/4 of the way into my mission I got the opportunity to teach a young homosexual. We had been teaching his family, and it just so happened that on the day his mother and sisters came to church the talk that day in sacrament was against homosexuality. The mother said she could not join a church that felt that way, and when we asked her why she stated that her son was gay. We asked to meet with him.

When we met him he had brought two female friends. He wore makeup, a yellow sweater over his shoulders, and "Daisy Duke" style shorts. We taught all three of them a first discussion. The young man and one of the friends decided to take the second discussion. The Holy Ghost was working them both over. Soon th emakeup began to disappear, and the clothign became more appropriate. His gay friends of coarse ostracized him, but he soon made new ones in the church. He had to be interviwed for baptism by the mission president, and was shortly baptised into the church. By the tim eI left the area he was blessing the sacrament and his mother and sisters had also been baptised.

I did alot of praying for that young man. I was very excited to see him change so dramatically. It was an amazing thing to see him receive answers to his prayers, and to see the change the Holy Ghost can inspire and assist in an individual.

My hatred towards Gays is focused on those who would militantly promote their lifestyle, and try to state that their actions are a right and that I have to accept it.

I do not have to accept perversion and sick behavior. I will never see it as normal or anything less than deviant. Homosexuality is a cancer on society and is only becoming accepted in these days where pornography is rampant and people moral compasses are askew. Homosexuality exists in the state it does due to moral apathy and a loss of virtue.

I love and acccept any person who is struggling to overcome carnal temptation and recognizes their own faults and is striving to make themselves more Christlike. I have nothing but the back of my hand for anyone who would strive to make me accept crass behavior and moral depravity.

It is Christlike to pray for and assist those who are seeking to repent. It is also Christlike to stand up for a moral principle and fight against evil and pernicious behavior.

[_skippy the dead]

It sounds like Gaz is not willing to accept KA's very thoughtful challenge.

[_Ray A]

When we met him he had brought two female friends. He wore makeup, a yellow sweater over his shoulders, and "Daisy Duke" style shorts. We taught all three of them a first discussion. The young man and one of the friends decided to take the second discussion. The Holy Ghost was working them both over. Soon th emakeup began to disappear, and the clothign became more appropriate. His gay friends of coarse ostracized him, but he soon made new ones in the church. He had to be interviwed for baptism by the mission president, and was shortly baptised into the church. By the tim eI left the area he was blessing the sacrament and his mother and sisters had also been baptised.

I did alot of praying for that young man. I was very excited to see him change so dramatically. It was an amazing thing to see him receive answers to his prayers, and to see the change the Holy Ghost can inspire and assist in an individual.

You didn't tell us what eventually happened to him, Gaz. Is he still active, still "straight"?

[_Yoda]

I love and acccept any person who is struggling to overcome carnal temptation and recognizes their own faults and is striving to make themselves more Christlike. I have nothing but the back of my hand for anyone who would strive to make me accept crass behavior and moral depravity.

Loving and accepting a person does not mean that you have to adopt that person's values. You simply accept that his/her value system might be different from your own.

Everyone is an individual.

I have two extremely close friends who are homosexual. They are both welcome in my home at any time. One has taught both of my girls in public school. He was the best Drama and English teacher they ever had. This person also happens to be a voice student of mine. He is a kind, genuine person who would do anything for his friends and family. When we traveled to the beach for Easter Break last year, my oldest daughter remained behind because she wanted to work on a Senior Project, and socialize with her friends. She has always been responsible, so I had no problem leaving her alone at the house. Jeff checked on her nearly every day, and even helped fix her car when it was having problems.

Do I see Jeff as a homosexual? No, not really. It is a part of his life, but it certainly does not make up his whole personality.

What I would like to know, Gaz, is, did you really say that Kim's sister would be better off dead, or some such thing? And if so, why? Even with all of your vehemence regarding homosexuality, I really can't imagine you saying such a thing. If you did, can you provide the link so I can read your views in context? I will not comment on a conversation I have not read.

[_Gazelam]

Liz,

What I would like to know, Gaz, is, did you really wish say that Kim's sister would be better off dead, or some such thing? And if so, why? Even with all of your vehemence regarding homosexuality, I really can't imagine you saying such a thing. If you did, can you provide the link so I can read your views in context? I will not comment on a conversation I have not read.

I honestly can't remember if I did or not. Knowing me I probably said something like "If shes unrepentant then yes." or something to that effect. I believe my arguement was that in death she would be unable to continue sinning and would therefore be better off. To be actively involved in a homosexual relationship is spiritual death. The sooner its cut off the better, if not by repentance, than by physical death.

[_Ray A]

I honestly can't remember if I did or not. Knowing me I probably said something like "If shes unrepentant then yes." or something to that effect. I believe my arguement was that in death she would be unable to continue sinning and would therefore be better off. To be actively involved in a homosexual relationship is spiritual death. The sooner its cut off the better, if not by repentance, than by physical death.

To be fair to Gaz, I think this is what a lot of true believers actually think. They just don't say it as openly as he has.

[_Gadianton]

Um, Sam, you're missing the mark here bud. Clearly there are many former "Peter Priesthoods" on this board. Including at one time, myself. But, there is a big difference between being a Peter Priesthood and being a Harry Hitler. I would wager that not a single one of the "antis" on this board, even the most formerly dedicated and clean living, ever believed strongly that gays should be "blood atoned".

[_marg]

I love and acccept any person who is struggling to overcome carnal temptation and recognizes their own faults and is striving to make themselves more Christlike. I have nothing but the back of my hand for anyone who would strive to make me accept crass behavior and moral depravity.

It is Christlike to pray for and assist those who are seeking to repent. It is also Christlike to stand up for a moral principle and fight against evil and pernicious behavior.

It's nice to see you speaking your mind Gaz, instead of your usual regurgitation of mind numbing scripture. Of course, you are digging yourself in a hole even further and showing your true vicious, hateful thoughts the antithesis of being Christ-like, against a minority of the population who impact you probably negligibly, if at all, but at least you are honest.

Good for you though that you are expressing your own thoughts.

[_Gazelam]

Marg,

I could use scripture and quotes from prophets, but frankly Im too tired and lazy to do the work. Im doing 60 hoursd a week at work right now, and it sounds like we might be going to 7 12's soon.

At least ill have bonus money for christmas.