California LDS Cops Engaging in Surveillance?

[_mentalgymnast]

Plus, this way the Church gets to neatly sidestep the problem of access to certain kinds of police resources.

Evil, nefarious church. It's a scheme to bilk us all out of our money and time I tell ya. Oh, you already understand that.

You know, Scratch, it's unfortunate that it is impossible for you to step outside of yourself and observe how silly you sound to many. I hope you're not some old guy wasting away your golden years doing something that adds no value to the good of the whole.

When I pop in on this board and see a thread that's been started by you, the first thing I ask myself is who is he trying to drag through the mud this time? I'll often read the first post, or sometimes the first page of your all new earth shattering and revelatory thread, and then go on to something else more productive. But that's just me. There may be others that hang on every word you say and wonder when the whole house of cards is going to fall.

You're an odd one Mister Grinch. But this board needs you. You're very possibly one of the reasons it's becoming more popular and growing in numbers.

Carry on,
MG

[_Mister Scratch]

Sure, sure. Plus, this way the Church gets to neatly sidestep the problem of access to certain kinds of police resources. As the Sacramento Bee article pointed out, these LDS police are doing more than simply showing up in uniform and working security detail at chapels and temples. They are also conducting Internet "surveillance,"

Yes, because you need special police tools and training to "keep track of internet chatter to find out where protests will be held". We've all been doing it, even without fancy equipment. "Surveillance" is your spin.

How would you characterize it, Skippy? I think you are rather neatly overlooking the fact that these are law enforcement officers we are talking about. You say, "We've all been doing it," but are we figures of authority, as police officers are?

Protest locations are well-publicized on the interwebs - the LEOs are just keeping an eye on where they'll be. Not unreasonable, given the amount of vandalism and threats of vandalism.

Let me remind you of what the article said:

"Our members in law enforcement know where to look for this kind of stuff," said Lisa West, spokeswoman for the church in the Sacramento region.

Am I mistaken, or does this quote make it seem as if the special access and privileges afforded to law enforcement are being tapped in this instance?

and looking to track down potential "subversives."

Where do you get that from the article?

What else would they be doing? This is just yet another extension of SCMC activities.

[_Mister Scratch]

Plus, this way the Church gets to neatly sidestep the problem of access to certain kinds of police resources.

Evil, nefarious church. It's a scheme to bilk us all out of our money and time I tell ya. Oh, you already understand that.

Where did I say that? Tell me this, MG: why is the Church requesting that law enforcement officers step outside of their prescribed roles? Is it appropriate for the Church to do this? Is it appropriate for the Church to urge police to hunt down SSM "subversives" on the Internet? Does this really seem 100% kosher to you? I don't think it's "nefarious" or "evil," as you suggest, but I do sense something bothersome in the fact that the Church would issue "marching orders" like this.

[_harmony]

I wonder how closely connected these LEOs are to the SMMC?

[_Mister Scratch]

I wonder how closely connected these LEOs are to the SMMC?

Precisely.

[_Mister Scratch]

Here is a rather telling post from a self-described "cop" over at MAD:

This is complete garbage!!! I've been a cop for almost 14 years and I'm constantly being asked to provide some sort of service or do some check that's outside of my scope/shift. Being a law enforcement officer who also happens to be LDS just adds an additional request, that's all.

Officers are always looking out for particular groups of people and those who would threaten them. I can't count how many times I was asked to BOLO (be on look out) in neighborhoods with kids and drug dealers, or gays and anti-gay groups, or minorities and racists. If officers are asked to be on the look out for any potential problems at or near LDS churches, there's no problem with that. That's our job!

(emphasis added)

So, what---is the difference simply that s/he was asked by the Church itself?

[_mentalgymnast]

Scratch:
If the Church wants heightened security, it ought to ship out the guys who get paid to work Church Security.

MG:
Logistically and in specific detail, how would guess/think that work?

Scratch:
Simple: The LDS Church pays guys to head out and protect the chapels and temples. End of story.

As is par for the course Scratch, you take something and blow it out of proportion and/or make it into something it's not...or at least you can't prove that there is any nefarious wrongdoing. If the church units in a localized area organize/do their own security/surveillance using trained law enforcement individuals who volunteer without SL having to become directly involved by taking paid security personnel away from their assigned posts on the temple block or other assigned areas...and leaving those areas without adequate security...where's the irrationality there?

You're making a mountain out of a molehill. Not the first time.

Regards,
MG

[_Dr. Shades]

If the church units in a localized area organize/do their own security/surveillance using trained law enforcement individuals who volunteer without SL having to become directly involved by taking paid security personnel away from their assigned posts on the temple block or other assigned areas...and leaving those areas without adequate security...where's the irrationality there?

That's just it: According to the article, they didn't actually volunteer.

[_mentalgymnast]

If the church units in a localized area organize/do their own security/surveillance using trained law enforcement individuals who volunteer without SL having to become directly involved by taking paid security personnel away from their assigned posts on the temple block or other assigned areas...and leaving those areas without adequate security...where's the irrationality there?

That's just it: According to the article, they didn't actually volunteer.

Well, yes and no.

They are hiring extra security to watch over the Folsom temple, and asking members to drive by church buildings late at night. Mormons in law enforcement are keeping track of Internet chatter to find out where protests will be held.

"Our members in law enforcement know where to look for this kind of stuff," said Lisa West, spokeswoman for the church in the Sacramento region. She added that they are doing this on their own time. "There's a lot of volatility in the air, so we're asking people to keep their eyes and ears open."

Mormon leaders have been staying vigilant since the Nov. 4 election and passage of Proposition 8, which bans same-sex marriage.

Members are asked to help out. They then volunteer. The extra security is paid help. Those individuals may be members. They may not. The article doesn't clarify this point as far as I can tell.

But again, my point is that Scratch was making a mountain out of a molehill. Would you agree?

Regards,
MG

[_Dr. Shades]

But again, my point is that Scratch was making a mountain out of a molehill. Would you agree?

Regarding the quote, "Mormons in law enforcement are keeping track of Internet chatter to find out where protests will be held. . . 'Our members in law enforcement know where to look for this kind of stuff,'" I'm afraid I disagree.