Mormonism is Now the Most Retrograde Religion in America.

[_Ray A]

According to Ed Firmage:

The Mormon Church, the Republican Party at prayer, wants to run with the fox and bay with the hounds.

The Mormon Church of the 19th century had a tradition of Christian socialism and a pioneering spirit that created much of the best that can still be seen in the Great Basin of the American West. These and many more traditions were obliterated by persecution, indeed the United States declared war on Mormon culture and the feds won.

I have benefited personally by the ministrations of church leaders, truly Christian acts that went far beyond what I had any right to expect. But long ago, Fawn Mckay Brodie, arguably the most famous Mormon historian, noted just prior to her death, that the Mormon Church would begin to draw to its banner a hugely disproportionate number of radical conservatives.

She said that even when she spoke, in the early 1980s, "birds of a feather" were indeed f l ocking together. Now, the story is complete. The Mormon Church is the most retrograde ecclesiastical body in the United States -- 100 years dated on civil rights for African-Americans (indeed, worldwide), staunchly opposed to First Amendment freedoms of speech and the press (see, e.g., Main Street Plaza, with all its plastic and plaster of paris). The Mormon Church led the powerful opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment that would have allowed women the full civic participation they obviously deserve and opposed the ordination of women to the clergy, since obviously only men can talk to God. Scores of members were excommunicated for writing true history, not the party line, a good example of inverse Darwinism, the survival of the least fit. And now Mormons have largely led and financed a war to deny marriage between gay and lesbian brothers and sisters. For me, this is not the last straw. Indeed, it is the two-by-four. My spine, devastated by surgeries, can take no more.

You have broken my heart.

Ed Firmage is the Samuel D. Thurman Professor of Law, emeritus, at the University of Utah College of Law.

Salt Lake Tribune
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[_Sethbag]

I wouldn't agree that the Mormon church is the most retrograde. I mean, come on, there's the Westboro Baptist Church, for example. And there are some born-again Christian churches that are probably even more rabid than the Mormons when it comes to gays and whatnot.

Ever heard of "Hell Houses"? You won't see a Mormon-staged Hell House.

[_Ray A]

I wouldn't agree that the Mormon church is the most retrograde. I mean, come on, there's the Westboro Baptist Church, for example. And there are some born-again Christian churches that are probably even more rabid than the Mormons when it comes to gays and whatnot.

Ever heard of "Hell Houses"? You won't see a Mormon-staged Hell House.

Tell that to Ed Firmage.

[_Scottie]

staunchly opposed to First Amendment freedoms of speech and the press (see, e.g., Main Street Plaza, with all its plastic and plaster of paris).

Huh??

What does the Main Street Plaza and plastic have to do with freedom of speech?? And since when is the church "staunchly" opposed to it??

[_Rollo Tomasi]

According to Ed Firmage:

The Mormon Church, the Republican Party at prayer, wants to run with the fox and bay with the hounds.

The Mormon Church of the 19th century had a tradition of Christian socialism and a pioneering spirit that created much of the best that can still be seen in the Great Basin of the American West. These and many more traditions were obliterated by persecution, indeed the United States declared war on Mormon culture and the feds won.

I have benefited personally by the ministrations of church leaders, truly Christian acts that went far beyond what I had any right to expect. But long ago, Fawn Mckay Brodie, arguably the most famous Mormon historian, noted just prior to her death, that the Mormon Church would begin to draw to its banner a hugely disproportionate number of radical conservatives.

She said that even when she spoke, in the early 1980s, "birds of a feather" were indeed f l ocking together. Now, the story is complete. The Mormon Church is the most retrograde ecclesiastical body in the United States -- 100 years dated on civil rights for African-Americans (indeed, worldwide), staunchly opposed to First Amendment freedoms of speech and the press (see, e.g., Main Street Plaza, with all its plastic and plaster of paris). The Mormon Church led the powerful opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment that would have allowed women the full civic participation they obviously deserve and opposed the ordination of women to the clergy, since obviously only men can talk to God. Scores of members were excommunicated for writing true history, not the party line, a good example of inverse Darwinism, the survival of the least fit. And now Mormons have largely led and financed a war to deny marriage between gay and lesbian brothers and sisters. For me, this is not the last straw. Indeed, it is the two-by-four. My spine, devastated by surgeries, can take no more.

You have broken my heart.

Ed Firmage is the Samuel D. Thurman Professor of Law, emeritus, at the University of Utah College of Law.

Powerful and eloquent. And heartbreaking ....

[_harmony]

According to Ed Firmage:

The Mormon Church, the Republican Party at prayer, wants to run with the fox and bay with the hounds.

I liked this. Nice imagery. I'm not sure the Republican Party would agree, and I think the confusion between the fox and the hounds (who is chasing whom) is probably more wishful thinking than anything, but still... great phrasing!

The Mormon Church of the 19th century had a tradition of Christian socialism and a pioneering spirit that created much of the best that can still be seen in the Great Basin of the American West. These and many more traditions were obliterated by persecution, indeed the United States declared war on Mormon culture and the feds won.

Let us pause a moment and thank God for the United States government, who knew an abomination when they saw one.

But long ago, Fawn Mckay Brodie, arguably the most famous Mormon historian, noted just prior to her death, that the Mormon Church would begin to draw to its banner a hugely disproportionate number of radical conservatives.

Is he saying that all the Mormons in Cali who donated to and supported Prop 8 are radicals? I don't think that's the case.

She said that even when she spoke, in the early 1980s, "birds of a feather" were indeed f l ocking together. Now, the story is complete. The Mormon Church is the most retrograde ecclesiastical body in the United States -- 100 years dated on civil rights for African-Americans (indeed, worldwide), staunchly opposed to First Amendment freedoms of speech and the press (see, e.g., Main Street Plaza, with all its plastic and plaster of paris). The Mormon Church led the powerful opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment that would have allowed women the full civic participation they obviously deserve and opposed the ordination of women to the clergy, since obviously only men can talk to God. Scores of members were excommunicated for writing true history, not the party line, a good example of inverse Darwinism, the survival of the least fit. And now Mormons have largely led and financed a war to deny marriage between gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.

I'm not sure what desecrating a park with plastic and plaster of paris has to do with the ERA or gay marriage, so it seems out of place with the other examples.

For me, this is not the last straw. Indeed, it is the two-by-four. My spine, devastated by surgeries, can take no more.

You have broken my heart.

Is he one of the members who resigned over Prop 8?

[_Wheat]

We can only hope that Ed takes that next step and resigns his membership, or that his stake president finally says ‘enough is enough’ and deprives Ed of his membership once and for all. The sooner Ed can no longer practice his evangelical apostasy under the umbrella of nominal membership, the better. His excommunication was always inevitable. It’s simply going to come a few decades late.

And thank goodness there is still at least one group of stalwarts in America willing to take a courageous stand against officially normalized immorality.

Of course, even with this small (and probably temporary) victory in California, it looks as though we are rapidly approaching the time when the following prophecy will become operable in this country:

And if the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will come upon you; yea, then is the time he will visit you with great destruction even as he has hitherto visited this land.

[_Some Schmo]

And thank goodness there is still at least one group of stalwarts in America willing to take a courageous stand against officially normalized immorality.

It's only immoral if you have a stick firmly wedged up your butt (and it seems you do).

Here's what's immoral: imposing your bronze-age beliefs on otherwise thinking people. It occurs to me that religious people like you are not only anti-evolution in theory, but in practice as well.

[_Ray A]

Ed Firmage contributed a chapter to Leaving The Fold. (All who contributed were inactive Mormons)

You can take the people out of Mormonism, but you can't take Mormonism out of the people. Or so say 18 "inactive" Mormons profiled here, who grew up in the church and left it during adulthood yet still wrestle with their Mormon heritage. Interviewer and editor Ure, an inactive Mormon himself, negotiates his own place outside the tradition during the course of these engaging conversations. A three-time Utah governor admits his difficulties in accepting the Book of Mormon as literally true, while a divorced woman speaking on condition of anonymity traces her defection to her realization that the Mormon theology of eternal families left little room for the divorced. Some of those interviewed gradually, and almost painlessly, drifted away, while others tried mightily to conform to the religion's expectations (one gay man recounts enduring electroshock therapy to "cure" his sexual orientation in the early 1970s, a procedure that is no longer recommended by the LDS Church). While some of the defectors' complaints involve specifically Mormon issues, such as the veracity of the Joseph Smith story, many outside the Mormon tradition will be able to identify with more general laments, such as the strict religion's exclusivity and insularity and the guilt that many feel when they fall short of their culture's expectations.

[_rcrocket]

I know Ed Firmage personally. He was married to a very close relative of mine. Let's just say that Ed is into Ed, and lots.