I wish it were true...

[_Dr. Shades]

At times like this I wish the church was true. Do you ever feel that way?

When you say "times like this," can you be more specific?

I don't think there were ever any gold plates, any visitations, any revelations. I think Joseph did what God wanted him to do when Joseph wrote the Book of Mormon and that, for the most part, it's an inspired book.

Did God also want him to lie about angelic visitations and golden plates? Was he inspired to lie about such things?

[_Runtu]

I used to wish it was true for purely selfish reasons: if it were true, I could believe in it, and the terrible gulf that had arisen between my wife and me would be gone.

But that's not good enough. It isn't true, and I know it. It's not a question of simply choosing to believe certain information and not others, as the apologists are wont to say. It simply isn't true, and obviously so.

After I figured that out, I still wanted to believe that the church was a good organization that made me happy. What I discovered was that I had been spending my life trying really hard to convince myself I was happy when in reality I was slowly losing my individuality because I was living my life to support the organization.

So, no, I don't wish it to be true. I like knowing what the church is and who I am. That's enough for me.

[_marg]

At times like what? What's going on right now that makes you feel that way more than at other times?

I feel this way from time to time. It's like Swiss nostalgia.

The social cushion of the church is enticing...

Quite frankly everyone, Eric is a 24 year old, with little social network, no financial cushion, currently out of work, family ostracizing him and anger issues he's not over which are justified from his experiences both from the Ranch his stepdad sent him to and from treatment by his family.

----------------------

The Church has screwed with your life Eric, no doubt about it. You've have good reason to be angry. Without your association with the Church through your parents, through Utah Boys Ranch, your life would most likely have been better off. You wouldn't have the anger you feel now, you'd likely be getting along with your parents (assuming they weren't Mormon), and probably focusing on moving your life forward positively instead of all the negative attention and time you've spent over the issue of religion generally.

Having said that you've got to move forward with decisions that help you. You've got to shift your focus off religion completely, and focus on helping yourself, being good to yourself. In your relationship with your parents if it can be salvaged don't fight your step dad over religion. Don't argue or try to change him on that, accept his choice. Even lie to him if it means it will help you. Be selfish Eric, do what is good for you, not what will sabatoge you for the sake of holding onto your principles.

[_Bond James Bond]

I bet GoodK really appreciates you airing his life circumstances there marg.

[_marg]

I bet GoodK really appreciates you airing his life circumstances there marg.

He has nothing to be ashamed of.
And maybe someone can offer some empathy, or some advice, instead of crap about whether the church is true or if God really talked with J. Smith, or if a God even exists.

[_marg]

I am so thankful I grew up with parents who didn't put me through this religious crap. I didn't waste 5 minutes of my time growing up worrying about or contemplating whether or not a God exists. Who gives a crap. I didn't think about religion or waste time until I got on the Net about 9 years ago, and began to appreciate how nutty it was, and what people wasted their time on.

I read Harmony and Rollo's response, and it's just so unbelievable the wasted time and energy people spend on religion.

[_Trevor]

It's just so unbelievable the wasted time and energy people spend on religion.

Yup. And yet it is so completely human. Most people have been wasting time on religion for the past 50,000 years or so. It just goes to show that while humans are capable of reason, they are not rational.

[_Trevor]

By the way, I am relieved it is not true. Whew!!!

[_marg]

How does one have a social network if they don't belong to a local church. When I look back on what I had, it stemmed mainly from my husband who had a good job with a large multi-national company. During our marriage he worked for 2 companies, the first one in the same industry for about 3 years and the second one for about 25 years. The benefits were great, dental, pension, insurance plus living in Canada we had medical covered. We moved a good deal but got to know other employees with the same company over the years, who in essence became friends. At no time did I ever feel vulnerable or needing to belong to any group, probably because that company actually provided that sense of security and a social network.

[_Sethbag]

This is spot-on for me. I think God gets way too much credit and blame for an awful lot. I think His default position is to leave us to our own devises.

In other words, your view of what God does, and ought to do, just happens to be the one that is functionally and visually indistinguishable from there being no God at all.

Can you think of any good reason why this should be so? I can.