The BYU student who created and sold the RM calendar, was ex'ed this past summer, but denied his BYU diploma. He now has a lawyer and wants it (or an appeals hearing). See link below for full article.
The thing I found odd was the mention that the guy was not just busted for the calendar, but other conduct "unbecoming" like failure to pay tithing or to do other Church duties. But this is specifically forbidden in the CHI, which states (emphasis mine):
A disciplinary action should not be held to discipline or threaten members who do not comply with the Word of Wisdom, or whose transgressions consist of omissions, such as a failure to pay tithing, inactivity in the Church, or inattention to Church duties.
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."
-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
Oh come on.. nearly everthing about the Mormon Church is odd..
God has the right to create and to destroy, to make like and to kill. He can delegate this authority if he wishes to. I know that can be scary. Deal with it. Nehor.. Nov 08, 2010
I don't understand your question. Do I find it odd that the church would break its own rules when it feels like being vindictive? No, not at all. Do I find it odd that Hardy would want his degree? No, not at all. Do I find it odd that Hardy would hire an attorney? No, not at all.
Please enlighten.
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"
I don't understand your question. Do I find it odd that the church would break its own rules when it feels like being vindictive? No, not at all. Do I find it odd that Hardy would want his degree? No, not at all. Do I find it odd that Hardy would hire an attorney? No, not at all.
Please enlighten.
I find it odd that Hardy's SP, who I would assume to be a drone yes-man, would articulate reasons for Hardy's discipline that are expressly forbidden in the CHI.
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."
-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
First, it was stupid of the church to excommunicate him for a mild, PG rated calendar.
Second, it was stupid of BYU to deny him his diploma. And, it does look vindictive for them to have added this to the excommunication.
Having said that, on a personal level I am grateful that they continue to vindicate my departure.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
Rollo Tomasi wrote:I find it odd that Hardy's SP, who I would assume to be a drone yes-man, would articulate reasons for Hardy's discipline that are expressly forbidden in the CHI.
Alright, tin foil hat thinking here,.... Hardy's SP was ordered to do the ex'ing from above. SP doesn't want to but has to. He knows this will blow up, is down inside a good guy, so he purposely overreaches on the ex'ing reasons knowing it will get out and have to be revoked and Hardy will then get his diploma. I know it's a stretch, but there are pockets of good guys throughout the church who are stuck in the bureaucracy.
I don't find it odd that they would X for any of those or many other reasons no matter what the CHI or any policy states. I just find it odd that they would put it in print for the public to see.
Maybe, christopher is right, this just may strengthen his legal position.
I think it would be morally right to lie about your religion to edit the article favorably. bcspace
Pokatator wrote:I don't find it odd that they would X for any of those or many other reasons no matter what the CHI or any policy states. I just find it odd that they would put it in print for the public to see.
Maybe, christopher is right, this just may strengthen his legal position.
Legal position?
The Church is the arbiter of who can belong to it, not the CHI. BYU gives the right to give endorsements to the Church. How exactly do you fight that?
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Pokatator wrote:Maybe, christopher is right, this just may strengthen his legal position.
Whatever legal position he may or may not have will have to regard BYU and it's offering of a service, then backtracking on his diploma, or something like that. The law won't touch the church's excommunication policy with a ten foot pole. And if a court tries, it'll get slapped down by a higher court.
Bottom line is that a church is free to excommunicate people for whatever reason they want, whether it's consistent with their own internal policies or not. The church could have in the CHI that people named Chad Hardy absolutely may not be excommunicated for any reason, and then turn around and excommunicate Chad Hardy for picking his nose with his left hand, and Chad would have no recourse with the courts whatsoever. The court would refuse even to look at the evidence relating to the church's internal policy.
Last edited by Anonymous on Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen