Sethbag wrote:In other words, your view of what God does, and ought to do, just happens to be the one that is functionally and visually indistinguishable from there being no God at all.
Can you think of any good reason why this should be so? I can.
Lack of faith?
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Actually, I do understand what Marg is saying, and I can appreciate what Goodk is feeling, as he regrets the loss of the social cushion provided by church members and family. I appreciate this acutely, actually, because I don't do much of anything with the local churchmembers, I work from an office in my home so I don't hang out with workmates anymore like I used to do before I moved out here, and I essentially have no connections to any kind of real-world social networks, other than my wife's family, and the Internet.
I don't really know what to suggest, or if I should just sit down and shut up and listen, or what. I totally appreciate that churches at least give one a ready-made group of aquaintances, even friends. Not everyone, I suppose, but a lot of people. I just know that I personally can't fool myself into believing something I know isn't true, just so I can hang out with a bunch of people who are under its spell.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
Momma went to church with me yesterday. Momma isn't a Mormon, so this is a rare occasion. Not because I invited her, but because her "boys" were speaking.
Momma is a widow, and in our neighborhood, that means she's taken care of as much as possible by some very special guys... the Mormon missionaries. They go to her home every Friday morning, and weed her flowers, mow her lawn, take down/put up her patio furniture, and generally make themselves useful. In return, she feeds them lunch and gives them leftovers and goodies to take back to their apartment. They have a very strong bond, even if they've only been assigned to her for a month.
One of her "boys" went home a few weeks ago. Within a week, he was back, and had brought his mom, because he wanted his mother to know who Grandma Bille was, the great lady she is, even if she is very small in stature.
Anyway, the missionaries were speaking in SM yesterday, and they wanted Momma to be there to hear them. They read her their talks on Friday, she corrected some mistakes and made some other suggestions, which they both took to heart and made the changes. They talked about service, and explained how it made them feel to be privileged to be able to give service every week to a very special lady who was so precious to them. She was so proud of them!
Then the high councilman talked, and she actually made it almost through his talk before she found something she disagreed with.
We all know she will never be baptised, and I personally don't think she would be happy as a Mormon, but I can't fault the way the missionaries care about her. And even though we had to smooth her feathers about the HC's comment, she understands that this church isn't for everyone, and we don't have to agree with what it teaches in order to respect and love the people in it. She defends us in her Baptist church, and calls them liars when they go off the deep end.
She is a great lady, and I feel no reason to apologize for her faith, or my own. I believe what I believe; you can believe whatever you want.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
Rollo Tomasi wrote:This is spot-on for me. I think God gets way too much credit and blame for an awful lot. I think His default position is to leave us to our own devises.
In other words, your view of what God does, and ought to do, just happens to be the one that is functionally and visually indistinguishable from there being no God at all.
Can you think of any good reason why this should be so? I can.
I agree. This position involves a fine line between 'saint' and agnostic.
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."
-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
I didn't mean to sound so negative -- I just miss the Mormon church a little bit, and I wish I could say that I believed it so I could reconcile going back, that's all. I wish I didn't have to feel like some of my best friends and family are either lying to themselves and everyone else, or insecure, or stupid.
Swiss nostalgia was the term for an "illness" in the Swiss army, supposedly when they were fighting in France and looking back at the the Alps they got really homesick. Some supposedly died, others got really really sick.
Nothing bad has happened, I just some times get homesick for the Church, the good part, the people.
GoodK wrote:I didn't mean to sound so negative -- I just miss the Mormon church a little bit, and I wish I could say that I believed it so I could reconcile going back, that's all. I wish I didn't have to feel like some of my best friends and family are either lying to themselves and everyone else, or insecure, or stupid.
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Nothing bad has happened, I just some times get homesick for the Church, the good part, the people.
I know what you are saying, GoodK. And I would have a much different attitude if it were really feasible to attend the LDS Church without having to buy into a lot of it. Unfortunately, "knowing" the Church is true is such an important part of it all that it leaves as person like me with very little wiggle room. My fundamental problem is that I do not believe in that kind of "knowledge" about things no one really knows.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
I had these yearnings all through the 1990s and did venture back several times for short periods. Same movie, same outcome. You're better off avoiding it altogether, even for social reasons.
Sethbag wrote:In other words, in order for Mormonism to be true, I have to accept that God is a "petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak. A vindictive, blood-thirsty ethnic cleanser. A misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, philocidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolant bully.", to quote Richard Dawkins.
I think Thomas Paine and Voltaire came to the same conclusions.
