damned if you do, damned if you don't... (about prop 8)

[_Sethbag]

Jason, is anyone being hounded publicly who didn't give over a thousand dollars to the Yes on 8 campaign?

[_antishock8]

Jason,

Who attempted to take away whom's civil rights? It ain't The Gays doin' that to the Mormons. It's the other way around. How you can turn your church into the victim after it just got done victimizing a significant portion of the population is amazing to me.

Here's a quick rundown of BYU's electroshock therapy program:

http://Mormonism.suite101.com/article.c ... on_therapy

http://www.affirmation.org/learning/wit ... ting.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroconvulsive_therapy

[_TAK]

Jason

Past wrongs do not make a right today. The Church no longer practices such tactic and indeed considering their doctrine, has made some decent progress regarding homesexuals. Is it perfect? Nope. Would I like to see changes. Sure.

So where is the Church's apology?
When has the Church ever apologized for any of its wrongs to others??
It - never - has!!

Hell of a fact for a religion that preaches repentance..

[_rcrocket]

Electroshock and other aversion therapy was administered by qualified medical professionals. In its day, it was considered an acceptable treatment for homosexuality. Even today, aversion therapy is held by some as effective and is employed to seek conversion. The mainstream medical community, however, sees little good in such therapy and a potential for harm.

BYU was not alone in this.

Apparently, there are few studies which demonstrate that such aversion therapy works or is harmful.

To me, I wouldn't want to see any of my gay friends agree to such a procedure because I think it would be harmful, but today is a different age and time.

[_rcrocket]

Jason, is anyone being hounded publicly who didn't give over a thousand dollars to the Yes on 8 campaign?

What about the ordinary members of the Church who are cursed and heckled by protesters, whose tires are slashed in church parking lots, and who receive anonymous phone hate mail if they happen to be known as Mormons? This is happening on a regular basis here in California.

As to those who actually contributed -- THANK YOU Nadine Hansen, the architect of the persecution.

[_harmony]

Jason,

Who attempted to take away whom's civil rights? It ain't The Gays doin' that to the Mormons. It's the other way around. How you can turn your church into the victim after it just got done victimizing a significant portion of the population is amazing to me.

Here's a quick rundown of BYU's electroshock therapy program:

Good grief, A8. At least get in the same century as the rest of us. That ended in the 70's. Back in the 70's, aversion therapy, electroshock therapy was used for a wide variety of mental illnesses. And back then, homosexuality was considered a mental illness.

We don't do that anymore; no one does. It was considered cutting edge at the time, but we know better now.

Can't you find something a little more recent? If not, you really need to get off this merry-go-round, because all it shows is that you're not current with the subject you're arguing about.

[_harmony]

It's cooh. The more the merrier.

The Counselor is an arrogant fool. The fruits of Mormonism, ideed.

Keep the personal attacks out of this forum. If you can't argue your case without personal attacks, go hone your argument some more.

[_Jason Bourne]

Jason, is anyone being hounded publicly who didn't give over a thousand dollars to the Yes on 8 campaign?

I don't know. Who cares? is $1000 the magic make it ok number?

[_Jason Bourne]

Jason,

Who attempted to take away whom's civil rights? It ain't The Gays doin' that to the Mormons. It's the other way around.

I understand this position. But it was not just the LDS Church. It was 52% of CA voters. And it was legal and the legal process was followed. And by the way the only right (and it seems debatable whether marriage is a civil right) was marriage not other rights that can be had through civil unions or domestic partnerships.

How you can turn your church into the victim after it just got done victimizing a significant portion of the population is amazing to me.

IT? BULL! It was not just IT! And by the way, did they try to out gays, get them fired, vandalize their homes, threaten them, desecrate their places of worship? And I am not turning it into a victim at all. I just think legal processes should be followed. Protest against it peacefully all you want.

How you can justify illegal behavior and anarchy even if you do not agree with what the other side legally is amazing to me.

[_Jason Bourne]

,

Who attempted to take away whom's civil rights? It ain't The Gays doin' that to the Mormons. It's the other way around.

Aren't gays attempting to now intimidate a segment for expressing their own freedom of speech and their own right to vote?