Harassment On Mormon Discussions.

[_Gadianton]

Well, Ray, "foul" comes in many forms, and being in a situation where one is in physical danger is just one manifistation. There are physically weak men who are just as foul as aggressive strong men. That's my opinion, anyway. We do not live in a society where physical strength rules the day, thus giving the foulness of many women a great chance to express itself.

It doesn't matter that much though, because in the end we agree, even if for slightly different reasons. I also agree, as I said, that such references could and should be edited out. I don't take pains to personalize insults such as, relating what X said to my own mother just to magnify the injury. But, like I say, the deepest grasps for expression in crude ways I have no problem doing without, and let them be deleted.

[_Ray A]

Well, Ray, "foul" comes in many forms, and being in a situation where one is in physical danger is just one manifistation. There are physically weak men who are just as foul as aggressive strong men. That's my opinion, anyway. We do not live in a society where physical strength rules the day, thus giving the foulness of many women a great chance to express itself.

And this expression is good, or bad? And what "foulness" are you talking about? Let's imagine a scenario. A man's wife goes away for a week, and he's feeling lonely, so he contacts a female he knows and suggests through his correspondence that he's in need of company and consolation. If the female reponds positively, he could have a cosy night of secret sex.

But if the wife discovers this, who is to blame, the man, or the woman he enticed, or tried to entice? Who will get the label of "slut"?

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[_Runtu]

I guess I don't see it necessarily in terms of gender. People ought to treat each other with respect and kindness, no matter who they are. I had a group of women who were sending all kinds of hateful messages to me when I had my original blog. Likewise, some of my female friends have had terrible, disgusting things said to them.

None of it is appropriate.

[_Dr. Shades]

Just out of curiosity, how would it be addressed, since this board does not ban nor censor?

The "foe list," a.k.a. the ignore feature.

Out of curiosity, why doesn't the foe's list work?

It does work.

Anyway, yes, Ray, people should treat each other with more respect. But the problems you listed are pretty much obsolete now that the ignore feature is in place.

[_Danna]

I am a recently joined poster, but have been oblivious to any sexual slurs.

Personally I have only seen such activity occur in real life when a person is frustrated communication-wise. A bloke will come up with blunt, aggressive and blatantly offensive slurs - like the old 'pissflaps' example, offensive to any and all women. A female will form a covert coalition to freeze out or rumor out someone; or will employ finely targeted insults, based on a bit of throw-away in real life information you let slip 8 months ago and forgot about. Female assaults are surgical, not area, weapons.

But actual sexual harrassment. Crickey, nothing like that I am glad to report.

But church-wise. Yes. I and my sisters have experienced very disturbing incidents. I personnally think that some aspect of an authoritarian patriarchial structure allows deviancy to flourish, and predation to be concealed. What luminaries such as Thomas Monson, Dallin Oaks, and even BKP do not realise is that they are creating the prefect priesthood camoflage, and hunting grounds for real, evil predators, and even grooming their prey for them.

[_collegeterrace]

Out of curiosity, why doesn't the foe's list work?

It does work.

Anyway, yes, Ray, people should treat each other with more respect. But the problems you listed are pretty much obsolete now that the ignore feature is in place.

The foe ignore list works. For me it's been Jason who? Nehor what? and I did not realize Jersey Girl had stopped posting!

The ignore feature works well. Use it or stop whining about others posts. I hope that you all do realize that nobody is forcing you to read every post.

And for the record, Jersey Girl was not the sweetest female poster either, and she did post some pretty crude things.

I bet a cyber buck she will be back. Thanks to the ignore feature, it will be tough for me to notice when she comes back! Thanks for that Doc!

Book of Mormon/Moniker... well there is some other history there which I wont go into.

Bottom line is this is an anonymous message board. If you come with a hard head, it better be covered with some very thick skin.

Again, USE THE IGNORE FEATURE.

[_collegeterrace]

Beastie, TD, Jersey Girl, Moniker, others

all gone.

You all know who you are. Little boys who when challenged seem to need to stoop to vulgarities and sexual body part comments. It is sad that you all have gone a long way to driving away those who make the board interesting. An un-moderated free speech board like this really requires some self restraint by its participants. It is too bad there are so many pubescent little boys here.

Try harder to be real men.

Shut up and turn on your ignore list biotch.

[_antishock8]

Oh, for “F”'s sake, RayA. These women can be incredibly rude, but because they're either passive about it or clever... And in some cases, really not even that (Jersey Girl, for example). As a personal rule, I never START an ad hom with anyone. And, in fact, I recall giving posters a chance to knock it off before I give them a dose of their own medicine (Mr. Peterson, Jersey Girl). If these innocent little lambs of yours don't want to muck it up with people on the Internet, then they need to stop slinging the mud.

Frankly, I don't see the difference between calling someone a dick, an asshole, a idiot, or a cunt. I'm not sure why the female's genitalia is somehow off limits, but the rest of the body isn't. That's weird. If Jersey Girl wanted to be civil, then she should have been civil; She should have apologized for being a bitch, and then resumed addressing issues. The rest of these women who continually address the person, and not the issue are guilty of harrassment, too. Charity was an excellent example of that. Harmony is, too.

Reference, Beastie. I don't really care. She got her pooper all puckered up over the fact that she was identified as being just as cultish as the Mormons she disrespects. She couldn't handle being the object of scorn, but clearly had no issue dishing it out on her victims (Mormons, Christians, Republicans, etc).

This is one of the reasons why I admire a poster like Dart. I disagree, vehemently with just about everything he embraces, BUT, under constant and withering personal attacks by pretty much everyone, he endures to make his points. And his points are thoughtful. Very thoughtful. I've learned quite a bit from this man because he had the strength of character and fortitude to withstand personal assaults, levied, in no small part, by the women who are now whining about being insulted. He made POINTS. He discussed ISSUES. He did attack character, too. He's not innocent in this. But he took what he dished out, unlike some of the little babies on this board (and a myriad of others).

Ad homs. Get used to it in life, and on the Internet. You can try to innoculate yourself against it by engaging people, or you can try to create little havens where you don't have to deal with reality. If you choose the latter, like they do over at MAD, then ultimately YOU will suffer from the lack of exchange. Your life will be myopic and strange. If you have the courage to engage others, then you develop as a human being. If you don't want to be treated like crap, then stop being a crap. If you want to discuss the issues, then stick to the issues. If you don't like someone, don't engage him or her. This is damned fundamentals, people. Strange that we're having a little blame game thread... Move on. They did. They'll be back. Or not. That's life. Life is fluid. It changes. People come and go. That's the deal. Sorry.

[_Gadianton]

Ray,

One problem here is we're covering a lot of territory in one conversation. Real life. This message board publically, and this message board behind the scenes. We're talking about a spectrum of behavior anywhere between physical violence and crude talk. And, there is thousands of years of history that goes into the conversation.

I do see what you're saying, yes, in the situation you bring up, the woman might be called a slut, especially by the guy who is guilty. But let's put a twist on that, are all those who will call the woman a slut in this situation men? Have you ever heard how women talk about each other?

You mentioned experiences from your job as a cab driver. Let me tell you about one of the first jobs I had as an, uh, adolescent. I worked in a department at a job made up 100% (most of the time) of women. Then there was me. It was a blue collar environment. It was day in and day out crude humor, sexual innuendo, rude statements about physical appearances, hygine, and you name it. There was non-stop drama and backbiting, behind the scenes wars and politcs, attempts to screw each other over in positions and advances etc. And not one man to be seen. Except me, but I was more of a kid, and in that situation an observer. Oh, well, yes, a fair share of "joking" was toward me, and technically I could have probably filed about 490 reports for sexual harrassment. But, the stuff toward me at least, was all in "good fun", I believe everyone liked me, I was never involved in the politics nor kept in the loop on details by anyone, so I was no threat in any way career wise (since I was temporary) or socially. These weren't terrible people, I loved all of them, and I'd catch up with any of them. I mention it as a real world example of foul behavior and language absent any male provocation or interference in any way. And it was standard, socially acceptable fare.

Of course, then there is this board, which is not the streets of Australia nor the wharehouses I worked in. And on this board, just in case I am misread, I think some of the extreme vulgarity and/or crude personal attacks could be edited out by mods if they so decided to do so in addition to people using the ignore feature.

[_Ray A]

Ad homs. Get used to it in life, and on the Internet. You can try to innoculate yourself against it by engaging people, or you can try to create little havens where you don't have to deal with reality. If you choose the latter, like they do over at MAD, then ultimately YOU will suffer from the lack of exchange. Your life will be myopic and strange. If you have the courage to engage others, then you develop as a human being. If you don't want to be treated like s***, then stop being a s***. If you want to discuss the issues, then stick to the issues. If you don't like someone, don't engage him or her. This is f*****g fundamentals, people. Strange that we're having a little blame game thread... Move on. They did. They'll be back. Or not. That's life. Life is fluid. It changes. People come and go. That's the deal. Sorry.

Well, AS, it may be a "blame game" thread, and I said from the start that I'd be accused of being "PC", or some such. That's okay with me.

I saw a problem, and I've seen it for a long time, and several women have exited the board for the reasons I've outlined, and we are already short on female posters. You should bear in mind too that it's not just about what happens on the board, but off the board.

Yes, Dart copped a lot of criticism, but where is he?

Dr. Shades:

This won't be solved by using the ignore feature.