The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics 2008

[_Jason Bourne]

But I agree with you that the apologists will always be at a disadvantage because they have to argue for that which is not true.

Apologists for any religion are at a disadvantage. Think of any religious criticism. It is easy to make a simple criticism that often takes many pages of response. Defending is always tougher than taking the offensive. This may be why top LDS leadership steers clear of apologetic efforts. Rather they declare what they think is truth in an affirmative way.

But really what amazes me with some who want to crow about how false the LDS Church is and how they are so happy to lead people out of it is what do they offer? All religions have truths and false hoods. Kimberly had traded LDSism for a liberal protestant faith and if she is happy with that I am happy for her. But is her current truth TRUE? Is it without problems? One could argue that if the Christian message is false then it ought to be exposed and one of the most tragic cons heaped upon the world. If she really feels a need to lead people out more power to her. I wonder where she finds them all. I see little bleeding of this sort at least where I live. But to what end is often the question. 18 last year? Sounds like she is busy.

[_Bond James Bond]

Prop 8 should be #1. Nothing has given more of a black eye to Mormonism and thus required more defense than the Prop 8 amendment in California. This isn't just a Mormon apologetic issue, this issue has made Mormonism a mainstream issue because it has become the face of opposition to the next big progressive social movement in America, gay marriage equality.

[_Mister Scratch]

I would have to rate the release of The Mountain Meadows Massacre and subsequent debates and criticisms as one of the top ten happenings in 2008.

For those who missed it, check out This Review.

Hmm. A pretty good point. I suppose that the Runtu/Wheat item could be swapped out for that.

[_Wheat]

9. Wheat Stalks Runtu The malign poster known as "Wheat" made an unsavory name for himself as he began to stalk and harass the mild-mannered poster known as Runtu. Widely believed to be a sockpuppet for William Schryver, Wheat continues to post rather vicious and morally questionable material on MDB.

??? When did this happen? Why wasn’t I aware of it?

Just like every other charge you make about people, you can’t produce a single shred of evidence to support your claims. Not even debatable evidence. You just pull this stuff out of thin air. And the most puzzling thing is that all of your friends here nod in agreement when you do it, even though they know it’s all made up, too.

All I ever said about Runtu is that he is a missionary for apostasy. Which he is. Just like most of the rest of you on this board. Your primary focus in life is to convert all believing Mormons into the almost 100% secular humanists you’ve become. Save the world, destroy the faith of a Mormon.

When I first came to this message board about a year ago, my intent was to try to better understand you folks. But the longer I have observed you, the more despicalbe I have found you to be. At first I thought Shryver was going way over board with the things he wrote to and about you. But now I understand where he was coming from. You folks are a bunch of seriously disturbed freaks. Mr. Scratch being one of the worst of the bunch. And I no longer feel sorry for any of you. You folks no longer believe because you have hardened your hearts against God and you refuse to hear his voice. And one day soon you’ll all regret the choices you have made to become an enemy to God, the Church, and the mostly humble and righteous people who call themselves Latter-day Saints.

[_Runtu]

??? When did this happen? Why wasn’t I aware of it?

Just like every other charge you make about people, you can’t produce a single shred of evidence to support your claims. Not even debatable evidence. You just pull this stuff out of thin air. And the most puzzling thing is that all of your friends here nod in agreement when you do it, even though they know it’s all made up, too.

All I ever said about Runtu is that he is a missionary for apostasy. Which he is.

I must really suck at it, as to my knowledge no one has ever apostatized due to my "missionary" efforts.

Just like most of the rest of you on this board. Your primary focus in life is to convert all believing Mormons into the almost 100% secular humanists you’ve become. Save the world, destroy the faith of a Mormon.

Do you hear yourself at all? You act as if you're engaged in a battle to the (spiritual) death with the forces of evil. Get over yourself.

When I first came to this message board about a year ago, my intent was to try to better understand you folks. But the longer I have observed you, the more despicalbe I have found you to be. At first I thought Shryver was going way over board with the things he wrote to and about you. But now I understand where he was coming from. You folks are a bunch of seriously disturbed freaks. Mr. Scratch being one of the worst of the bunch. And I no longer feel sorry for any of you. You folks no longer believe because you have hardened your hearts against God and you refuse to hear his voice. And one day soon you’ll all regret the choices you have made to become an enemy to God, the Church, and the mostly humble and righteous people who call themselves Latter-day Saints.

Well, hell, if we could all be as humble and righteous as you are ...

Again, get over yourself.

[_Trevor]

A worthy and well thought out post Trevor. Kudos to you.

Thanks, Jason.

[_antishock8]

All I ever said about Runtu is that he is a missionary for apostasy. Which he is. Just like most of the rest of you on this board. Your primary focus in life is to convert all believing Mormons into the almost 100% secular humanists you’ve become. Save the world, destroy the faith of a Mormon.

When I first came to this message board about a year ago, my intent was to try to better understand you folks. But the longer I have observed you, the more despicalbe I have found you to be. At first I thought Shryver was going way over board with the things he wrote to and about you. But now I understand where he was coming from. You folks are a bunch of seriously disturbed freaks. Mr. Scratch being one of the worst of the bunch. And I no longer feel sorry for any of you. You folks no longer believe because you have hardened your hearts against God and you refuse to hear his voice. And one day soon you’ll all regret the choices you have made to become an enemy to God, the Church, and the mostly humble and righteous people who call themselves Latter-day Saints.

Mormon dystopia at its finest.

[Guest]

Apologists for any religion are at a disadvantage. Think of any religious criticism. It is easy to make a simple criticism that often takes many pages of response. Defending is always tougher than taking the offensive. This may be why top LDS leadership steers clear of apologetic efforts. Rather they declare what they think is truth in an affirmative way.

But really what amazes me with some who want to crow about how false the LDS Church is and how they are so happy to lead people out of it is what do they offer? All religions have truths and false hoods. Kimberly had traded LDSism for a liberal protestant faith and if she is happy with that I am happy for her. But is her current truth TRUE? Is it without problems? One could argue that if the Christian message is false then it ought to be exposed and one of the most tragic cons heaped upon the world. If she really feels a need to lead people out more power to her. I wonder where she finds them all. I see little bleeding of this sort at least where I live. But to what end is often the question. 18 last year? Sounds like she is busy.

Good post.

Additionally, the predictions of mass exodus from the faith are quite literally nothing new in Mormonism. Ever since the very start (think Kirtland at the least) people have left and believed that thus leaving was inevitable for any rational person. It is only a matter of time.

Similarly, from the view of the faithful, people will leave, of course, that isn't surprising or new. A believer who feels all people will join the church inevitably are in a similar position in which the critics find themselves. Predicting that their choice of action is inevitable for all, and believing progress marches on in that direction.

Reading over old anti-Mormon newspaper reports up to discussions in early issues of Dialogue bears this out, in my opinion.

[_Mister Scratch]

9. Wheat Stalks Runtu The malign poster known as "Wheat" made an unsavory name for himself as he began to stalk and harass the mild-mannered poster known as Runtu. Widely believed to be a sockpuppet for William Schryver, Wheat continues to post rather vicious and morally questionable material on MDB.

??? When did this happen? Why wasn’t I aware of it?

Just like every other charge you make about people, you can’t produce a single shred of evidence to support your claims. Not even debatable evidence. You just pull this stuff out of thin air.

Hi there, Will. All of this material has been documented. Far better documented, in fact, that your false allegations against Dan Vogel.

All I ever said about Runtu is that he is a missionary for apostasy. Which he is.

You stalked and harassed him on his blog. Did you not?

When I first came to this message board about a year ago, my intent was to try to better understand you folks. But the longer I have observed you, the more despicalbe I have found you to be. At first I thought Shryver was going way over board with the things he wrote to and about you.

Gee, this sounds odd. It sounds like you are pretending that you are not actually Will Schryver. If that is the case, then you are guilty of lying and hypocrisy. And, as you know, Christ condemned hypocrisy above all other sins. Tell me: have you yet apologized for your "Chozah" sockpuppet dishonesty, Will?

[_rcrocket]

Tell me: have you yet apologized for your "Chozah" sockpuppet dishonesty, Will?

Oh. Oh. Oh. Yet another demand for an apology from our dear Mr. Scratch.

How disturbing and troublesome. You have yet to apologize for your incessant demands for apologies.