Does example matter?

[_Runtu]

For the record, I did not share that story to condemn anyone or especially to condemn the church. I think that bishop made a terrible mistake, and I forgive him, just as my parents have forgiven him.

My parents were both active at the time and still are. Dad, being a starving student with three children, got behind on tithing. That was the extent of his unfaithfulness. When he told me the story, he was using it to illustrate why we should not expect perfection from anyone, not even church leaders. He went on to say that he would have been a poor member of the church had he let that incident drive him away. I agreed with him then and agree still.

And I should add that my parents never asked for help from the church. My mom wondered why no one had offered help, but she's not the kind of person who likes to ask for help. It wasn't until years later that the former Relief Society president explained what had happened.

They aren't bitter about it, and neither am I.

[_moksha]

It is very appropriate for a bishop to require church attendance, activity and charity work (where it can be done) as a condition to church assistance. Perhaps not the first time the request is made, and maybe not the second, but for successive requests, yes.

Bob, isn't there a scripture somewhere that says one must be a full tithe payer for Christian charity to kick in? If not a scripture, how about a policy directive? If not that, then how about in the Book of Ebenezer Scrooge?

[_Some Schmo]

Actually people leave the Church for a variety of reasons. Some do leave because someone offends them. Some leave because they do not want to commit to some of the requirements, be it time, money, rules, etc. Some leave because they become bored or apathetic and really do not care much for religion. Some leave because they do not believe any more. I have seen people leave for all these reasons and not one more than another really. Well save apathy. Most that leave seem to quit participating and loose interest. There may be other things tied to that but mostly just apathy.

Granted, but don't most of the things you listed boil down to it not being true? If it were true, wouldn't it inspire people to be more committed, less apathetic, more religiously inclined?

It seems to me if there really were a god who really was concerned with having his own restored church, the religion would be a far more powerful thing the weak, milquetoast inspired rubbish we see today (from all religions, not just Mormonism).

Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that I think if there's really a god that wanted us to believe in him, he'd actually provide a reason to do so (read: evidence) rather than being the type of god that makes it seem like there really is no god at all.

[_CaliforniaKid]

Throughout that six-year period, no one from the church helped out. No one babysat, no one brought in meals, nothing. Years later, the former Relief Society president approached my mom and tearfully begged her forgiveness for not helping. She said that in ward council, the bishop had said that no one was to help the Williams family because my father was not a full tithe payer. So no one did.

Unbelievable. Freaking unbelievable.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

I did not know that story. I am saddened by this harsh bishop. I can recall often being urged by members of a PEC that I should not assist those who were less active, or I should require tithing and church attendance before I assisted someone. I always listened respectfully and then would state that based on what I understood about Jesus command that as we do to the least we do to him I found it better to help. I said that I always encouraged church attendance and tithing when I met with less active persons in need. But I refused to make it a requirement to feed someone or to make sure their rent was paid or they had heat.

I really am not boasting about this. Maybe I was too liberal. But I get sad, very sad when I hear about harsh bishops. I believe if there is a God that he will not be happy with such behavior.

The Church needs more bishops like you, Jason. Well done.

[_Jason Bourne]

The Church needs more bishops like you, Jason. Well done.

Thanks

Just to clarify I am not a bishop now and I have not been for sometime.

[_bcspace]

She said that in ward council, the bishop had said that no one was to help the Williams family because my father was not a full tithe payer. So no one did.

At best, I'm quite sure this is not the whole story.

[_Runtu]

She said that in ward council, the bishop had said that no one was to help the Williams family because my father was not a full tithe payer. So no one did.

At best, I'm quite sure this is not the whole story.

I neglected to say that the bishop confirmed that to my mother. I have no reason to believe that my active, faithful LDS mother would lie about something like that, or that my faithful father would make it up in the first place. My mom was horrified that my father had told me that story. But, she said, I shouldn't judge the church by that one incident, and I don't.

Of course, my being an apostate means the story is suspect at best, right?

[_Ray A]

At best, I'm quite sure this is not the whole story.

Somehow I don't think the five versions of the first vision is the whole story either.

[_rcrocket]

Bob, isn't there a scripture somewhere that says one must be a full tithe payer for Christian charity to kick in? If not a scripture, how about a policy directive? If not that, then how about in the Book of Ebenezer Scrooge?

No. Ninety-nine percent of the people I help are not full tithe payers. Really, my only concern when I have one is helping somebody on a repetitive, successive basis who is an able-bodied adult, who is not willing to be a full-time attender, hold a calling and help out with cleaning up.