Mormonism is Now the Most Retrograde Religion in America.

[_Ray A]

So this is a non-issue Ray, just like most of the issues you exercise yourself over here.

How is it a non-issue?

You wrote:

No, I don't, nor do most members because the "advice" was never generally circulated. It seems to have never left Utah. I never heard of it until I began frequenting antii-Mormon boards such as this.

Well now you're hearing of it, and it's been known since 1982, and not on message boards.

Wasn't it you who said that "pay lay ale" wasn't never uttered in temple ceremonies???

What's at issue here, Droopy, is your credibility.

[_Mister Scratch]

What is your evidence of any member "backlash"? As I said, I've been a member all of my life, and I never heard this letter discussed, in public or private, by a single member I've ever known.

Strange how a "backlash" could be so invisible and inconspicuous given the weight exmos give to it.

One might be forgiven for thinking that the entire thing was, well, imaginary.

Perish the thought.

A lot of things in Mormonism are secret, or kept "on the down-low". By your logic, Droopy, you ought to consider things such as the Gold Plates to be "imaginary," since you, personally, had no actual exposure to them.

[_Ray A]

What is your evidence of any member "backlash"? As I said, I've been a member all of my life, and I never heard this letter discussed, in public or private, by a single member I've ever known.

Strange how a "backlash" could be so invisible and inconspicuous given the weight exmos give to it.

One might be forgiven for thinking that the entire thing was, well, imaginary.

Perish the thought.

Here is the link to what I quoted earlier (BYU Newsnet).


And:

While the church seems to have done much in retracting the official statement that oral sex is sinful, they have left us guidelines to instruct us on what is appropriate and what is not....(emhasis added)

Why do you think they retracted it?

[_Ray A]

I'll put this to you in simple, straightforward terms: According to the First Presidency's real view, any husband and wife who engage in oral sex are unworthy to enter the temple. But they have retracted that publicly, because of the member backlash that they have no right to judge what happens in marital bedrooms.

So it's not a case of "thus saith the Lord", but accommodation. Sort of like trying to decide whether it's Mesoamerica, New York, or bust. The prevailing scholarly views have, apparently, as much weight as "revelation".

[_Droopy]

Well now you're hearing of it, and it's been known since 1982, and not on message boards.

Wasn't it you who said that "pay lay ale" wasn't never uttered in temple ceremonies???

What's at issue here, Droopy, is your credibility.

It was I who said I never uttered it, and that my parents, who went through the Temple in the early forties, don't remember it. The real problem with the words are the fictitious translation and interpretation given them by Ed Decker.

Beyond that, I did say that I did repeat some words three times in the Temple, but I said them in English, not in the claimed Hebrew.

And yes, its a non-issue, as made clear by the fact that only LDS who have any experience in the online or literary world of anti-Mormonism have ever so much as heard of the "issue" at all.

[_Droopy]

A lot of things in Mormonism are secret, or kept "on the down-low". By your logic, Droopy, you ought to consider things such as the Gold Plates to be "imaginary," since you, personally, had no actual exposure to them.

In other words, not a shred of evidence exists for the "backlash".

Just as I proverbially thought.

[_Ray A]

It was I who said I never uttered it, and that my parents, who went through the Temple in the early forties, don't remember it. The real problem with the words are the fictitious translation and interpretation given them by Ed Decker.

What fictitious translation?

Beyond that, I did say that I did repeat some words three times in the Temple, but I said them in English, not in the claimed Hebrew.

Pay lay ale means in temple parlance, "oh God, hear the words of my mouth". Both were uttered in the temple ceremony.

And yes, its a non-issue, as made clear by the fact that only LDS who have any experience in the online or literary world of anti-Mormonism have ever so much as heard of the "issue" at all.

No, that isn't the issue. Your memory is.

[Guest]

I'll put this to you in simple, straightforward terms: According to the First Presidency's real view, any husband and wife who engage in oral sex are unworthy to enter the temple. But they have retracted that publicly, because of the member backlash that they have no right to judge what happens in marital bedrooms.

You've already admitted that "Bishops like yourself" never made the letter public in any great numbers, so its no wonder that the "backlash" is a figment of your imagination (which is probably why, in some 26 years since it was circulated, neither I nor anybody I know in the Church have ever heard of such a backlash or participated in it).

This was the "interpretation" of the First Presidency of the time. You've already admitted it was not doctrine and, as such, was not binding upon the general membership of the Church.

A tortured conscience needs this kind of fodder doesn't it Ray?

Next: licked cupcakes...

So it's not a case of "thus saith the Lord", but accommodation. Sort of like trying to decide whether it's Mesoamerica, New York, or bust. The prevailing scholarly views have, apparently, as much weight as "revelation".

Is there a prevailing scholarly view of oral sex?

[_Droopy]

It was I who said I never uttered it, and that my parents, who went through the Temple in the early forties, don't remember it. The real problem with the words are the fictitious translation and interpretation given them by Ed Decker.

What fictitious translation?

Beyond that, I did say that I did repeat some words three times in the Temple, but I said them in English, not in the claimed Hebrew.

Pay lay ale means in temple parlance, "oh God, hear the words of my mouth". Both were uttered in the temple ceremony.

And yes, its a non-issue, as made clear by the fact that only LDS who have any experience in the online or literary world of anti-Mormonism have ever so much as heard of the "issue" at all.

No, that isn't the issue. Your memory is.

Nope. Not my memory, just you're own intellectual integrity.

[_Droopy]

Decker's interpretation of the words spoken were "Wonderful Lucifer".

Even the Tanner's couldn't stomach that.