MAD's Obiwan: A Recovering "Pornoholic"?

[_Droopy]

On another thread, our dear moderator Scottie noted that the aptly named MADboard poster called "Obiwan" was become increasingly irascible and cranky. Perhaps we can partially credit that to the fact that Joseph Antley has fired up yet another ridiculous porn-themed thread. It turns out there is good reason why Obiwan would be "hot and bothered," as it were, by threads of this nature:

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... 9566&st=40

Speaking from experience.... it's a destroyer..... Sure, you think it hurts nothing for a while, but then you realize how it's changed you and that effects outward.

Unless I am mis-reading him, it seems he is admitting to personally have a "problem" with porn. Thus, we have yet more evidence that the LDS Church has created yet another pornography addict.

I learned to detect rudimentary logical fallacies such as this my first year in college. Indeed, I was doing it long before that time. A fifth grader should be able to negotiate paper thin intellectual gruel such as this.

Just typical Scratch, however.

[_Mister Scratch]

I learned to detect rudimentary logical fallacies such as this my first year in college. Indeed, I was doing it long before that time. A fifth grader should be able to negotiate paper thin intellectual gruel such as this.

If "liberal" American culture leads to relaxed attitudes towards sex, then it is easy enough to see how the authoritarianism and patriarchal attitudes in the LDS Church would contribute to porn addiction. The Church has a profound effect on the way men view women, and thus it makes sense that, under certain circumstances, the "flood gates" would open, as it were. I'm sure you understand this; it fits right in with your typical mode of ratiocination. QED.

[_Droopy]

If "liberal" American culture leads to relaxed attitudes towards sex, then it is easy enough to see how the authoritarianism and patriarchal attitudes in the LDS Church would contribute to porn addiction. The Church has a profound effect on the way men view women, and thus it makes sense that, under certain circumstances, the "flood gates" would open, as it were. I'm sure you understand this; it fits right in with your typical mode of ratiocination. QED.

So now you compound one logical fallacy with yet others. Well done.

I see no logical relationship whatsoever between the liberal, permissive attitudes of the mainstream culture, the (snip pc shibboleths) attitudes of Church toward sex, and pornography addiction. There may very well be a psychological relationship, from your perspective, but that's another matter entirely.

The origin of addiction per se, of any kind, is to be found in a unique, personal relationship with something within one's environment and experience and is only tenuously related to mediating factors such as religious teaching. Few LDS men who have ever dabbled in porn will ever become addicts, just as relatively few who drink will ever become alcoholics. Addiction is a deep and personal pathological relationship with something, not an adolescent reaction to moral rules and delimitations.

Restrictions on human behavior of the kind found in the Gospel do not produce addiction (even if, in some people, they produce a kind of adolescent rebelliousness) as a reaction to them. Indeed, indulgence in practices with an enhanced potential for generating an addictive relationship are likely, for susceptible people, to end by generating precisely that.

[_bcspace]

If "liberal" American culture leads to relaxed attitudes towards sex, then it is easy enough to see how the authoritarianism and patriarchal attitudes in the LDS Church would contribute to porn addiction.

Except that the Church does not teach such attitudes.

[_Mister Scratch]

I see no logical relationship whatsoever between the liberal, permissive attitudes of the mainstream culture, the (snip pc shibboleths) attitudes of Church toward sex, and pornography addiction. There may very well be a psychological relationship, from your perspective, but that's another matter entirely.

I'm glad to see that you're willing to admit that there "may very well be a psychological relationship" between Church teachings and pornography addiction. Well done, Loran.

The origin of addiction per se, of any kind, is to be found in a unique, personal relationship with something within one's environment and experience and is only tenuously related to mediating factors such as religious teaching.

Of course, "religious teaching" is, in fact, "something within one's environment."

Few LDS men who have ever dabbled in porn will ever become addicts, just as relatively few who drink will ever become alcoholics. Addiction is a deep and personal pathological relationship with something, not an adolescent reaction to moral rules and delimitations.

So...how do you interpret Obiwan's remarks? Do you think that, in fact, he has his head up his keister? In other words, that porn is completely innocent, and that the fault was entirely his own? (With, perhaps, some "psychological" influence from the Church, as per your earlier remark?)

Restrictions on human behavior of the kind found in the Gospel do not produce addiction (even if, in some people, they produce a kind of adolescent rebelliousness) as a reaction to them. Indeed, indulgence in practices with an enhanced potential for generating an addictive relationship are likely, for susceptible people, to end by generating precisely that.

Let's not forget, though, that "obsessiveness," ritual behaviors, and repetition of activities are an integral part of being LDS.

[_Gadianton]

Restrictions on human behavior of the kind found in the Gospel do not produce addiction (even if, in some people, they produce a kind of adolescent rebelliousness) as a reaction to them.

What really goes on, however, is that Mormons believe that as soon as Satan "enters the stage", and that they invite him, that they lose the spirit temporarily and Satan takes control to a large degree. Mormons have reinforced this over and over and over again in their own minds, so when they do just "look once", the gospel programming kicks in and turns them into porn maniacs. That's why TBMs on MAD and elsewhere, when they speak up on things like porn, always recount how awful and addicting it is, how the clutches of Satan nearly ruined them and their families. It was a self-fulfilling prophecy, thanks to the church.

[_Dr. Shades]

It was a self-fulfilling prophecy, thanks to the church.

Very profound, Gadianton! Thanks for that food for thought.

[_asbestosman]

I think Satan's clutches lie around junkfood. Lots of addicts in this country--just look at the bulging waste lines (no, I'm not judging individuals since they each have individual circumstances, but as a group Americans are too overweight).

I am curious though--if gluttony were emphasized as being as sinful as pornography, would Mormons be more likely to become gluttons? Are Mormons more likely to become alcoholics? Are they more likely to become addicted to tea or coffee?

[_asbestosman]

Some people become burglers in order to pay for their drug addictions. I wonder if anyone does that for their porn, World of Warcraft, or MDB addictions.

[_Daniel Peterson]

I find Scratch's evident desire to smear and malign Obiwan troubling, and disturbing.