Went through the Temple last week...

[_bcspace]

If I was Mormon I wouldn't fear death either. It would be quick relief from the torture of having to believe and live such absurdity.

What is it that you think is absurd?

Which includes denying perfectly legitimate civil rights to other people.

There are no civil rights which we have denied to anyone.

[_bcspace]

For some people "becoming like Christ" can be like starting an inquisition. The Inquisitors really thought they were "doing God's work".

Doesn't follow.

"I will become like Christ, and I will straighten out Gay people with electrotherapy". Very Christlike. Don't read the scientific literature, let's shock them into being "Christlike".

Ah! My favorite! Electrotherapy....

Oops! That was ElectroSHOCK therapy. Here is some electrotherapy...

Electrotherapy

[_Ray A]

What is it that you think is absurd?

The idea that proto-humans had animal spirits, three Nephites, Jaredite barges that stunk like floating human toilets, whole civilisations that "inhabited the Americas" and had wars that killed millions, yet no trace of them is to be found anywhere. Would you like me to go on? Of course you would, because BC only believes Mormonism for personal reasons, not any objective scrutiny.

There are no civil rights which we have denied to anyone.

More denial. The Church's intrusion into Prop 8 will ensure one thing, BC, and that is that there will not be a Mormon president of the United States for another 50 years! Do you really think Americans are that stoopid? They have seen how your church can influence politics, and they will shun a Mormon president just like they shunned Brigham Young and his Utah theocracy. In a way, Prop 8 was a good thing, because it will wake up the American people to what moral, social, and political dictators Mormons can be, and that's something none of us wants in America.

Kiss goodbye to your hopes of a Mormon president until at least 2058.
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[_wenglund]

Can you accept that the cow jumped over the moon? Or that Santa Claus will really, really, come down your chimney this Xmas. Be truthful.

Of course there will be things that you and I both reasonably agree are absurd.

However, that is beside the point that there are things about which we will reasonably disagree are absurd or not. For example, I happen to find your stated prejudices on this thread to be absurd, but I doubt that you do.

Once you finally wrap your mind around the reality that reasonable people can reasonably disagree about what is absurd or not, then a whole new vista of rational understand may open up and enlighten you. It may even pave the way for our having a more productive and respectful conversation.

Which includes denying perfectly legitimate civil rights to other people. Some "charity". All of course viewed through the lens of your "religious worldview".

Speaking of lenses, that is certainly one negatively biased and uncharitably distorted way of viewing the mission of the Church.

For some people "becoming like Christ" can be like starting an inquisition. The Inquisitors really thought they were "doing God's work". "I will become like Christ, and I will straighten out Gay people with electrotherapy". Very Christlike. Don't read the scientific literature, let's shock them into being "Christlike".

What does any of this have to do with me and what I said? I made no mention of inquisitions or electrotherapy or gays.

But, to each their own.

No, not as long as it fosters absurdity. We could also say to child molesters, "each to their own".

Speaking of absurdities, so now you are equating the restored gospel of Christ with child molesters?

What's going on with you, Ray? The last time we interacted, you were very pleasant and understanding and open-minded, yet over the last several hours you have been on a major closed-minded rant that is seething with contempt and disrespect. That is not like you, and I am wondering if there may be something manic or bi-polar going on--not that it is any of my business? It is just that I care about you and hope only the best for you and yours.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Mister Scratch]

I understand now that my discomfort wasn't because of anything untoward occuring during any of the ritualistic practices mentioned above, but because I had been so steeped in Western thinking and hadn't been exposed much at all to Eastern methods of instruction.

Wade, you do realize that many of the practices you mentioned are actually a part of Western culture, right? And that you found them odd simply because you are a TBM? (At least, I *guess* that's the reason....)

[_Ray A]

What's going on with you, Ray? The last time we interacted, you were very pleasant and understanding and open-minded, yet over the last several hours you have been on a major closed-minded rant that is seething with contempt and disrespect. That is not like you, and I am wondering if there may be something manic or bi-polar going on--not that it is any of my business? It is just that I care about you and hope only the best for you and yours.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Hi Wade (mellow greeting),

Mormonism is a mind “F”. Get out of it as quickly as you can.

That's all I have to say. It screwed my mind, and it will equally “F” yours. It is no respecter of victims.

[_Ray A]

This religion has some very good points, but the problem is that you have to believe in unbelievable things to make it work. Not worth it. Go canoeing instead.

[_wenglund]

Wade, you do realize that many of the practices you mentioned are actually a part of Western culture, right?

Yes, I have long realized that Western cultures have adopted some elements of Eastern thought, and vise-versa. Even given their Eastern origins, Christianity and Judaism have had a significant influence on Western civilization.

Even so, with the global melding of various culture, there are still more than a few striking differences between the East and West, sufficient that people may experience some measure of "culture shock" (mostly mild?) when Westerners are exposed to Eastern practices and thought, and vice-versa.

And that you found them odd simply because you are a TBM? (At least, I *guess* that's the reason....)

Bzzzt. Wrong "guess"--though expected.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

What's going on with you, Ray? The last time we interacted, you were very pleasant and understanding and open-minded, yet over the last several hours you have been on a major closed-minded rant that is seething with contempt and disrespect. That is not like you, and I am wondering if there may be something manic or bi-polar going on--not that it is any of my business? It is just that I care about you and hope only the best for you and yours.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Hi Wade (mellow greeting),

Mormonism is a mind f***. Get out of it as quickly as you can.

That's all I have to say. It f*** my mind, and it will equally f*** yours. It is no respecter of victims.

I see that you are still disposed to emoting in vial ways, and so I will leave off interacting with you further until you return to a more reasonable and respectful state of mind. Until then, I again wish you only the very best.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Ray A]

I'm coming to agree with Dawkins. More and more.

Religion is a crock of shite.