Does Boyd K. Packer Understand The Gospel?

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_Brackite
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Does Boyd K. Packer Understand The Gospel?

Post by _Brackite »

Hello all Here,


Recently, Here is what LDS Apostle Boyd K. Packer stated:

"Any man who thinks he's going to the highest degree of glory without a woman at his side does not understand the gospel."


( Link: )



Is this statement really true? Is it really true for a man to really understand the Gospel, He has to believe that he needs to Marry a Woman, to be able to get to the highest degree of Glory and/or Heaven? To understand what the Gospel really is, let us go to the Scriptures, that defined for us what the Gospel really is.
First, let us go to the New Testament.
Here is 1 Corinthians Chapter 15, Verses one through four:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (New King James Version):

1 Corinthians 15:

The Risen Christ, Faith’s Reality


1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,



Here, the definition of the Gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus for the complete Forgiveness of all of the sins of all of those who put their trust within Him. There is absolutely Nothing in here about a man having to get Married to a Woman to be able to enter into the highest degree of Glory.
Now let us go to the Book of Mormon.
Here is 3 Nephi Chapter 27, Verses 13 through 21:

3 Nephi 27:13-21:

[13] Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you -- that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.

[14] And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil --

[15] And for this cause have I been lifted up; therefore, according to the power of the Father I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their works.

[16] And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.

[17] And he that endureth not unto the end, the same is he that is also hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence they can no more return, because of the justice of the Father.

[18] And this is the word which he hath given unto the children of men. And for this cause he fulfilleth the words which he hath given, and he lieth not, but fulfilleth all his words.

[19] And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.

[20] Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day.

[21] Verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and ye know the things that ye must do in my church; for the works which ye have seen me do that shall ye also do; for that which ye have seen me do even that shall ye do;



Again, there is No where in the definition of the word Gospel, within that Scriptural Passage, to mean that a man has to get married to a woman to be able to enter into the highest degree of Glory.

The Conclusion of this Post is that, LDS Apostle Boyd K. Packer is the one here, that does Not really understand what the Gospel really is.

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_Gadianton
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Re: Does Boyd K. Packer Understand The Gospel?

Post by _Gadianton »

Um, I hate to defend Boyd and all, but I think by "the gospel" he means as it was restored through Joseph Smith, and it's trivially true that exaltation, with the ability to populate planets and all the rest requires a man and a women.

"Is it really true for a man to really understand the Gospel, He has to believe that he needs to Marry a Woman"

Well, I think pretty much all LDS scripture is clear on this one (as has always been interpreted by LDS leaders), yes.

I think your problem is Brackite, that you are sort of equivocating between "the gospel" as trivially assumed by Packer here to refer to LDS beliefs -- we can note clearly his audience is LDS -- and a scholarly study of "kerygma". It's awkward because to say packard is wrong on the grounds of the latter is to trivially note that Mormon interpretations of the gospel are not accepted by anyone but Mormons.
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_Trevor
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Re: Does Boyd K. Packer Understand The Gospel?

Post by _Trevor »

I don't know about the OP, but the subject line question I will answer thusly...

No.
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_bcspace
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Re: Does Boyd K. Packer Understand The Gospel?

Post by _bcspace »

Is this statement really true? Is it really true for a man to really understand the Gospel, He has to believe that he needs to Marry a Woman, to be able to get to the highest degree of Glory and/or Heaven?


Yes.

To understand what the Gospel really is, let us go to the Scriptures, that defined for us what the Gospel really is.


I don't think there is any one single verse or verse set that describes all the requirements for salvation in the highest degree. For example...

Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
1 Corinthians 11:11

Bottom line: If you want to be in and one with God, as per John 17. You will be married. Thus you can't obtain the highest degree of salvation unless you are married.
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_Scottie
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Re: Does Boyd K. Packer Understand The Gospel?

Post by _Scottie »

Is this about gay marriage? Saying a man and a man (or woman and woman) cannot attain salvation?

What if you are gay, yet follow the brethrens advice to simply not marry and deny your unholy urges? Will you not be saved for enduring to the end? Wasn't it enough that the cruel God you worship sent you to Earth with such an "ailment", and yet you stayed true to His unreasonable demands?
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_wenglund
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Re: Does Boyd K. Packer Understand The Gospel?

Post by _wenglund »

Does Boyd K Packer understand the gospel?


It strikes me as more than a bit funny that this question would be posed here. Isn't this somewhat akin to meeting with a small group, most of whom are disgruntled people in various stages of financial bankruptcy, and asking them whether Warren Buffet understands economics and finance? :biggrin:

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_SatanWasSetUp
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Re: Does Boyd K. Packer Understand The Gospel?

Post by _SatanWasSetUp »

Read BC Spaces's link on what is LDS doctrine. Random statements from General Authorities are not doctrine. The scriptures that you quoted are. Therefore, we can assume that Packer is simply speaking his opinion, just as many apostles and prophets have over the years. History has shown that LDS leaders say some really dumb things. Stick to what the scriptures say and ignore random opinions spouted by general authorities.
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_harmony
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Re: Does Boyd K. Packer Understand The Gospel?

Post by _harmony »

Brackie, are you sure you want the highest level of the CK? You may be happier elsewhere.
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_cinepro
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Re: Does Boyd K. Packer Understand The Gospel?

Post by _cinepro »

Slightly off topic, I love the Church News Headlines:

"Lord's great plan leads to happiness".

That's some late-breaking news there.

Here are some other interesting highlights from the talk:

"Any man who thinks he's going to the highest degree of glory without a woman at his side does not understand the gospel.


There must have been a reason for him to say this. Is there a trend for single men in the Church to feel they can somehow be exalted without needed marriage? Are single men putting off marriage with the expectation that God will assign them a wife in the hereafter? Would this be an incorrect assumption?

He encouraged the young adults to take advantage of the Savior's Atonement, which "can clean anything. Repentance will bring someone back from addiction, from difficulties, from mischief, from all kinds of patterns of activity."


In the past, President Packer has said things that implied that gospel living could cure different mental maladies like depression. His comment that "Repentance can bring someone back from addiction" is interesting, since I think that could be misinterpreted by some people.

He warned the young adults, "Do not be critical of the Lord's Church and His priesthood and His servants."


I like how it's a "warning". He didn't plead with them. He didn't ask them to please not criticize the leaders. It was a warning, for their own good I'm sure.

"Tithing would be the foundation of our financial plan."


Is tithing really a good "foundation" for a financial plan? At the very least, I would suggest "spend less than you make" as the foundation, with tithing being among the high priorities. But how can "give your church 10% of your income" really be translated into a financial plan?

Then he counseled, "In all of your struggles, pay your tithing first. Then you'll be entitled to the blessings of the Lord. In this time of unprecedented economic crisis, I urge you not to be afraid. You'll be all right provided you follow the Lord's way."


Sadly, this statement is so ambiguous it is worse than meaningless. "Blessings of the Lord" and "You'll be all right" sound great, but they really don't mean anything. They're nebulous concepts meant to give the impression of surety when they are nothing but vacuous words.

As discussed on MAD in this thread, people who pay their tithing shouldn't expect any "blessings" beyond what is expected of anyone who practices sound financial management. Even a satanist who spends less than they earn, saves for the future, and donates to their favorite (Satanic?) charity would find the "windows of heaven" opened to them. And LDS who obey every word of the Law of Tithing have no verifiable guarantees for anything.
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Re: Does Boyd K. Packer Understand The Gospel?

Post by _SatanWasSetUp »

cinepro wrote:
"Tithing would be the foundation of our financial plan."


Is tithing really a good "foundation" for a financial plan? At the very least, I would suggest "spend less than you make" as the foundation, with tithing being among the high priorities. But how can "give your church 10% of your income" really be translated into a financial plan?


He probably means tithing is the foundation of our (The Church Leadership's) financial plan. Tithing is the foundation. They have a few side businesses to supplement the bank account, but tithing is the foundation.
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley

"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks
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