Open the financial records guys

[_ajax18]

Even I remember my parents paying, "budget." I guess that was for the building costs, utilities etc. It seemed like Latin america had an LDS church on every block (granted transportation is more of a challenge there), with full streets of inactive members who got a couple checks out of the bishop and never returned.

When President Hinckley told them in a conference through Richard G. Scott as interpreter of course, "Quit blaming the church for pulling money out of Latin America. We've actually been pouring millions of dollars into Latin America," some people got offended. The rest of us just sat wondering what the financial truth was.

[_squawkeye]

"those of you who presume to sit in judgement of the Church leaders, it would only be right to first find out why the change occured so as to place yourselves in better position than the peanut gallary to judge whether their decision was respectful of members or not"

Some of us have tried only to be told 'none of your business', 'don't question the leaders', 'your questions are going to put you on the road to apostacy', 'why don't you trust the brethren', and similar baloney.

Why don't we trust the brethren? When we see and know of members and leaders stealing and see nothing done?

Open the books and at least give an honest accounting. Already we know the leaders are not to be trusted as two have to sign/countersign checks and make bank deposits.

[_Henry Jacobs]

'why don't you trust the brethren'

Seriously, what have the brethren, as an entity, done to earn the degree of trust the folks like Wade give them? In a church where members routinely reach adulthood only to learn that many of their childhood sunday school lessons were filled with bogus propaganda, where does this "blank check" trust come from?

[_harmony]

'why don't you trust the brethren'

Seriously, what have the brethren, as an entity, done to earn the degree of trust the folks like Wade give them? In a church where members routinely reach adulthood only to learn that many of their childhood sunday school lessons were filled with bogus propaganda, where does this "blank check" trust come from?

Tradition, blind faith, habit, warm and fuzzy feelings.

Mostly habit, I think.

[_cinepro]

'why don't you trust the brethren'

Seriously, what have the brethren, as an entity, done to earn the degree of trust the folks like Wade give them? In a church where members routinely reach adulthood only to learn that many of their childhood sunday school lessons were filled with bogus propaganda, where does this "blank check" trust come from?

It's not just that. The leaders of the Church have had some royal financial screw-ups in the past, so even if we could trust them about their interpretation of the scriptures or predictions of the future, we might still have very good reason to question their acumen in making financial decisions.

[_harmony]

It's not just that. The leaders of the Church have had some royal financial screw-ups in the past, so even if we could trust them about their interpretation of the scriptures or predictions of the future, we might still have very good reason to question their acumen in making financial decisions.

Since 1959, no one knows what financial screw ups have been made because the books were closed in 1959. So, for the last 50 years, decisions have been made in secret.

Pretty soon, no one will be alive who remembers when the books were open.

Scary thought.

[_cinepro]

It's not just that. The leaders of the Church have had some royal financial screw-ups in the past, so even if we could trust them about their interpretation of the scriptures or predictions of the future, we might still have very good reason to question their acumen in making financial decisions.

Since 1959, no one knows what financial screw ups have been made because the books were closed in 1959. So, for the last 50 years, decisions have been made in secret.

Pretty soon, no one will be alive who remembers when the books were open.

Scary thought.

We do know the Church was almost financially ruined by Bishop Moyle's building program of the 1960's. Maybe it was already in swing by 1959, which prompted the closing of the books?

[_wenglund]

'why don't you trust the brethren'

Seriously, what have the brethren, as an entity, done to earn the degree of trust the folks like Wade give them?

Your question is entirely backwards from the way I think. Unlike you, I favor the time-honored tradition of prusumption of innocence. Perhaps you have heard of it? My inclination, then, is to trust until proven untrustworthy.

For me, the right question would be: "Have the brethren, as an entity, demonstrably done things that would prevent folks like me from not trusting them? And, my answer would be no--infact, a reasonable examination of all that these men do actually reainforces the legitimacy of my trust in them.

I suppose, though, that were I inclined to be a self-appointed watch-dog of the brethren (which I am not--I have enough to do keeping my own house clean), and were I to presume guilt until proven innocent, I may see things like you and others here.

In a church where members routinely reach adulthood only to learn that many of their childhood sunday school lessons were filled with bogus propaganda, where does this "blank check" trust come from?

What you describe is the rare exception, not the rule, and therefore, if you are looking to point the finger of distrust and propagandizing (I am not), then reason would suggest that the more suspect entity would be the "adults" you mentioned above.

One the other hand, for those of us who prefer a reasoned and fair approach, we may strike it all up as simply differences of opinions. But, to each their own.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Mister Scratch]

Seriously, what have the brethren, as an entity, done to earn the degree of trust the folks like Wade give them?

Your question is entirely backwards from the way I think. Unlike you, I favor the time-honored tradition of prusumption of innocence. Perhaps you have heard of it? My inclination, then, is to trust until proven untrustworthy.

But the Brethren *have* been proven untrustworthy. Cf. Cinepro's post above re: Elder Moyle's poor financial acumen.

[_harmony]

For me, the right question would be: "Have the brethren, as an entity, demonstrably done things that would prevent folks like me from not trusting them?

How far back do you want to go? To Joseph?