When did Missionaries start teaching the First Vision story?

[_Lamanite]

Lamanite, I must forewarn you that I'm possibly polygamy's biggest foe on forums, and I consider it nothing but a twisted abomination. If you seek to justify it, then we will be at odds. Lucy Walker? Have you ever heard of Emma Smith?

Mormon Enigma.

Yeah, you've probably read it. But maybe it just hasn't sunk in yet?

Yes the tragedy of Emma's life has sunk in.

Their is a bit of cognitive dissonance that exists within me at the moment regarding polygamy. One part says it must be a social construct. The other part says Joseph was commanded without implementation procedures. The latter has a number of implications which I just can't discuss. Well I guess I could under the right circumstances.


Big UP!

Lamanite

[_Lamanite]

In that same light, why did God reveal SOOOO much to Joseph Smith, then the revelation suddenly stopped with him?

If it's this slow process, shouldn't we be still getting significant revelation today? The kind of revelations like Joseph got?

The Wonderful flood of light required for the restoration was magnificent.

Why not the continuation of the sorts Joseph received. Not sure. My guess is that it's not necessary at the Church wide level. It will come when needed a la , 1978. But I can tell you revelation continues in my life.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[_Lamanite]

"It seems as if you assume that in every instance God comes to man and reveals or restores EVERYTHING in a single flash of blinding, mind numbing, Matrix style kung fu teaching, methods."

If Joseph Smith had seen we are now told he saw his story would be consistent from the beginning. Simple as that, isn't it?

The first stories are apparently not of 'father and son' but that only came about later.

What did he see and when did he start preaching it? If he had told this version of God and Jesus from the first the missionary efforts would have taught it, right? If he had been teaching it from the first they would have known it from the first.

Again, I ask; What seek ye?

I just want to know if in answering you, I'm providing information to the sincere, or casting pearls.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[_harmony]

Yes the tragedy of Emma's life has sunk in.

Their is a bit of cognitive dissonance that exists within me at the moment regarding polygamy. One part says it must be a social construct. The other part says Joseph was commanded without implementation procedures. The latter has a number of implications which I just can't discuss. Well I guess I could under the right circumstances.


Big UP!

Lamanite

And it's always possible that Joseph lied. Again.

[_Lamanite]

And it's always possible that Joseph lied. Again.

The dissonance for me arises from the fact that Joseph is a Prophet of God (please remember that this is a fact for me, but may not be for you.) And I do not believe he would hatch a plan of sexual deviancy and power as plural marriage. Treachery of this kind would make King David and Bathsheba, and the subsequent murder of her husband look mild, in my opinion.

Looking at In sacred loneliness, by Compton, there is both compelling evidence that women felt deceived and lived very difficult lives, a la Fanny Alger; and then there are women like Eliza Snow and Lucy Walker, who walked into Polygamy with eyes wide open and lived proud lives as plural wives. (Sorry for the alliteration).

I can't reconcile Polygamy with the Joseph I know and the overall debacle that was plural marriage.

Tough subject for me.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[_cinepro]

California Kid said: "A sunstone presenter said that the FV didn't get significant circulation even among Mormons until the Reed Smoot hearing."

I wonder why this presenter didn't give weight to the fact that it was being preached in the bowery in Utah long before that?

Kathleen Flake discusses this in her book on the Smoot hearing. While it may have been known and discussed in some settings, the First Visions wasn't a central tenant of Church history until the Smoot hearing catalyzed a shift in emphasis in Church teaching from Polygamy to instead a focus on earlier revelations, not later ones. It would be like if the First Presidency decided that instead of the First Vision, we were now going to focus on Moroni's visit, and slowly changed our literature, hymns, and correlated materials to focus on Moroni and not the First Vision. The FV would still be "in the books", but it just wouldn't be focused on.


I'll try to find my copy of the book and quote the pertinent references.

[_Scottie]

In that same light, why did God reveal SOOOO much to Joseph Smith, then the revelation suddenly stopped with him?

If it's this slow process, shouldn't we be still getting significant revelation today? The kind of revelations like Joseph got?

The Wonderful flood of light required for the restoration was magnificent.

Why not the continuation of the sorts Joseph received. Not sure. My guess is that it's not necessary at the Church wide level. It will come when needed a la , 1978. But I can tell you revelation continues in my life.

Big UP!

Lamanite

This is very interesting. I would think as the church grew to a worldwide religion that we would need at least ONE new revelation, right?

[_Lamanite]

This is very interesting. I would think as the church grew to a worldwide religion that we would need at least ONE new revelation, right?

Don't use your Jedi mind tricks on me by ending your statement with a request for an affirmative response. You little tricker you!

I have heard Elder Maxwell (God bless him) say that some people think GBH legacy will be Temple building. But he asserts that because of his close association with GBH, he considers his legacy should be that of revelation for the Church.

I assume you're talking about revelations as additions to the D&C. I don't know why there aren't official revelations. I can take guesses but they will seem hollow to you. I can tell you it doesn't bother me and my satisfaction with the Church is sufficient, and my Joy in the Gospel is full.

What do you think some good revelation topics could be?

Big UP!

Lamanite

[_Scottie]

This is very interesting. I would think as the church grew to a worldwide religion that we would need at least ONE new revelation, right?

Don't use your Jedi mind tricks on me by ending your statement with a request for an affirmative response. You little tricker you!

I have heard Elder Maxwell (God bless him) say that some people think GBH legacy will be Temple building. But he asserts that because of his close association with GBH, he considers his legacy should be that of revelation for the Church.

I assume you're talking about revelations as additions to the D&C. I don't know why there aren't official revelations. I can take guesses but they will seem hollow to you. I can tell you it doesn't bother me and my satisfaction with the Church is sufficient, and my Joy in the Gospel is full.

What do you think some good revelation topics could be?

Big UP!

Lamanite

How many different issues on these boards alone do LDS disagree on? How about further clarification of the WoW? How about a better explaination of sealings and why women can only have 1 husband but men can have many wives?

The bottom line is that Joseph Smith was getting revelation about some of the most mundane, unimportant things imaginable. When he died, it stopped.

So, we are forced to look at this in a couple of different ways.

1. God felt like he revealed everything he needed to reveal. I don't buy this because there is still SOOO many unanswered questions in the LDS religion.
2. God and Joseph had a more special relationship than any of his other prophets. Perhaps Joseph was more righteous, but we have evidence that he was anything but perfect. It would appear that other prophets were more righteous than he was. But I guess we'll never really know their hearts to know for sure.
3. Joseph made up this religion along with all his prophecies.

Personally, 3 makes the most sense to me.

[_harmony]

I can't reconcile Polygamy with the Joseph I know and the overall debacle that was plural marriage.

Tough subject for me.

Big UP!

Lamanite

What makes you think you know Joseph at all?