"Live by the lamp of their own conceit"

[_Ray A]

Just dropping by to say that Daniel C. Peterson is guilty of pissing on my privacy, pitting my step-parent against me, and continuously reporting my posts to my step-father.

Does "Creepy Network of informants" ring a bell?

[_LifeOnaPlate]

You of all people should know that change will never occur, no matter if harmony had a face to face meeting with the Prophet. Because that's not how Mormonism works.

Someone should have told Gene England, Richard Poll, Lester Bush, and Armand Mauss.

[_Ray A]

Someone should have told Gene England, Richard Poll, Lester Bush, and Armand Mauss.

Told them what?

Is harmony anywhere near such influence?

You and others have exploited her on this thread by shamelessly offering bogus promises.

[_Ray A]

You of all people should know that change will never occur, no matter if harmony had a face to face meeting with the Prophet. Because that's not how Mormonism works.

Someone should have told Gene England, Richard Poll, Lester Bush, and Armand Mauss.

Is this an admission that change came about because of academic influence, and not revelation?

[_GoodK]

Does "Creepy Network of informants" ring a bell?

"If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us."

Hermann Hesse

[_Yoda]

And how much "private information" would she have to supply to enable Lamanite to buy an airline ticket for her?

Well, I don't think that Lamanite is just going to send random cash to some unmarked box. She would need to give him her name, and at least some type of address, or some means to get money to her, if she was making the plane reservation. If he was physically buying the ticket, he would need her name, whether she had any physical disabilities that would need to be accommodated while flying, etc.

Edited to add---I posted this response before I read Lamanite's information about a buddy pass through Delta.

[_Gadianton]

A fantastic quote GoodK. I think it explains why FAIR/MAD hates Hitler so much with their odd version of "Godwin's law".

[_harmony]

You of all people should know that change will never occur, no matter if harmony had a face to face meeting with the Prophet. Because that's not how Mormonism works.

Someone should have told Gene England, Richard Poll, Lester Bush, and Armand Mauss.

Armand Mauss? What change came about because of Armand Mauss?

[_harmony]

None of the discussion from the last few pages addresses any of this:

1. Open the books and restore the trust that's been missing for almost 50 years. Even if they don't know it, the members have been and are being cheated.

2. Develop a mechanism by which rank and file members will be regularly accessed by leaders from the highest level. Get past their hero worship and actually listen to what the members say, even when what they say is not what you want to hear.

3. Live humbly, acknowledging that your roof and your daily bread comes from the labor of others.

4. Listen to those who have been hurt by the church. Get past their anger and actually hear the underlying pain.

5. Address the dysfunctional aspects of Mormon culture. Nothing is exempt.

6. Treat all members alike.

Me meeting with a GA at my behest will not change any of these. Now if a GA called me on the phone and made arrangements to meet me at a church house in town, because he was interested in my suggestions, that would be an entirely different signal.

But as I said: I'm not rich, I'm female, and I'm not Mormon Royalty. I feel no compulsion to go to meeting wherein I'm patronized.

But I would be delighted to meet for dinner, if I ever get to spend any time in SLC, instead of whizzing through the airport.

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[_Ray A]

Armand Mauss? What change came about because of Armand Mauss?

Over a 20 year period Mauss and others like Lester Bush influenced the direction of the "Black Policy".

The LDS Church and the Race Issue: A Study in Misplaced Apologetics.

Mauss noted:

Q : When did the Mormon Church finally change its policies about blacks?

A : 1978.

Q : That seems a little late. Didn't most churches and other institutions drop all their racial restrictions a lot earlier than that?

A : Yes; generally a little earlier. But Church leaders had the matter under consideration for at least twenty years before 1978.22

Q : What took so long? Why couldn't the prophet just change the policy?

A : Especially in such important matters as this one, a prophet or president in the LDS Church is not inclined to act alone. The president, his two counselors, and the twelve apostles are all considered "prophets, seers, and revelators," and they usually act as a body when deciding on fundamental doctrines and policies. This process is by definition a conservative one, since it requires a relatively long period of discussion, deliberation, and prayer in order to reach a consensus--in order to feel that they have all been moved by the Holy Spirit toward the same decision. The prophets came close to consensus more than once across the years before they finally achieved it in 1978.23 (emphasis added)

Footnote 22:

See my account of the long and anguished history leading up to the policy change on priesthood in the LDS Church: "The Fading of the Pharoah's Curse: The Decline and Fall of the Priesthood Ban against Blacks in the Mormon Church," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 14:3 (Fall 1981), 10-45, summarized in All Abraham's Children, 231-241. See also Lester E. Bush, Jr., "Writing 'Mormonism's Negro Doctrine: a historical Overview' (1973): Context and Reflections," Journal of Mormon History 25:1 (Spring 1999), 229-271; and Gregory A. Prince, "David O. McKay and Blacks: Building a Foundation for the 1978 Revelation," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 35:1 (Spring 2002), 145-153.

Some of the dates reflect the monograph publication date, not the actual dates the articles were originally written, which was long before 1978. The First Presidency was "well advised" on the history of the origin and development of the "Black ban". Once they realised it had no foundation in revelation, but was a "cultural phenomenon", erasing it became much easier.

But that would not have occurred without the help of scholars like Mauss and Bush.

Does "Church of the Scholars" ring a bell?