"Live by the lamp of their own conceit"

[_Ray A]

It is now apparent you don't know what any of those men said of their experiences. Further, it seems you believe the two things are mutually exclusive. I can't remember if I ever viewed things through the lens of that dichotomy but I certainly do not now.

I would suggest I knew what they said of their experiences either before you were born, or still in diapers.

[_LifeOnaPlate]

It is now apparent you don't know what any of those men said of their experiences. Further, it seems you believe the two things are mutually exclusive. I can't remember if I ever viewed things through the lens of that dichotomy but I certainly do not now.

I would suggest I knew what they said of their experiences either before you were born, or still in diapers.

Well, you must have forgotten then. Must be that age thing.

[_Ray A]

I assure you, though you think the worst of me for some reason, I am entirely sincere in my offer. As is Sione and Dan Peterson. At this point it isn't a game or a put on; it is a legitimate offer and an extending of the hand of fellowship. It's not a joke, exploitation, or whatever else you negative folks want to paint it.

Then I'll just have to put it down to naïvété. Inexperience. Another novice unacquainted with why such suggestions smack of "bake a cake and take it over to your neighbour, they'll get a good impression of us".

"We are really normal, and we have NO ulterior motives, none whatsoever".

Do you think I was born 15 minutes ago?

[_Daniel Peterson]

You mean if she packed her bags, upset her work schedule, left her family and family responsibilties, to travel, and live in strangers' homes

You make it sound as if we're asking her to pull a handcart across the plains.

However, in the age of air travel, this trip wouldn't take long. (Incidentally, as harmony knows, I know where harmony lives.) She could even be to Salt Lake City and back, very possibly, within a single day, without need of lodging.

And we're willing to pick up the entire tab.

yeah, she could meet an apostle.

Precisely.

Her point was that no member should have to do this! How about you and Lamanite arrange for an apostle to fly out to meet Harmony? Why should she, an ordinary working mother with more charity work behind her than they might be able to claim at the grass roots level, with NO frequent flyer points, pack her bags to have the honour of "meeting an apostle" who will eventually reject everything she suggests?

And your point is that an apostle should pack his bags, upset his work schedule, and leave his family and family responsibilities to travel and live in strangers' homes in order to have a possible opportunity to listen to the grievances and demands of one of roughly thirteen million members -- this one essentially a non-believer -- who's refused to communicate with any apostle and says she doesn't want to meet one?

[_Ray A]

Well, you must have forgotten then. Must be that age thing.

I've forgotten more about Mormonism than you know about it.

Don't come with your corny, fake lines, LOP. I know sincerity when I see it.

[_Daniel Peterson]

I've forgotten more about Mormonism than you know about it.

Don't come with your corny, fake lines, LOP. I know sincerity when I see it.

You're getting a bit testy, Ray.

Good night.

[Guest]

Well, you must have forgotten then. Must be that age thing.

I've forgotten more about Mormonism than you know about it.

Don't come with your corny, fake lines, LOP. I know sincerity when I see it.

Well, I figured since you were making diaper comments and pulling the age card* I could do a little fun tit for tat. Guess not. by the way, your ego is showing. ;)

[_Ray A]

And your point is that an apostle should pack his bags, upset his work schedule, and leave his family and family responsibilities to travel and live in strangers' homes in order to have a possible opportunity to listen to the grievances and demands of one of roughly thirteen million members -- this one essentially a non-believer -- who's refused to communicate with any apostle and says she doesn't want to meet one?

You got it, Dan. You got it.

Didn't Jesus leave the ninety and nine?

That's why I said it would be a miracle. Why don't you and Sione tell an apostle that there's a lady who would like to meet with an apostle? In her home.

1 And Jesus entered and passed through Jericho.
2 And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.
3 And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.
4 And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.
5 And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.
6 And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.
7 And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.
8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

[_Ray A]

You're getting a bit testy, Ray.

Good night.

That's not my concern. What "tests" you and your Mormon comrades, might not make me test the Jesus of Faith. And if my reading of the Gospels is correct, you honour him with your lips, but your heart is far from him.

[_Daniel Peterson]

And your point is that an apostle should pack his bags, upset his work schedule, and leave his family and family responsibilities to travel and live in strangers' homes in order to have a possible opportunity to listen to the grievances and demands of one of roughly thirteen million members -- this one essentially a non-believer -- who's refused to communicate with any apostle and says she doesn't want to meet one?

You got it, Dan. You got it.

Didn't Jesus leave the ninety and nine?

That's why I said it would be a miracle. Why don't you and Sione tell an apostle that there's a lady who would like to meet with an apostle? In her home.

Because, among other things, I don't know that she would really like to meet with an apostle in her home, and because there are several million people who would probably like to have an apostle drop by for a chat in their homes. I can think of no reason why, if she can't even be bothered to write a note or make a call or take an all-expense-paid trip, she should be the one who gets such a visit.

Apostles do meet with ordinary members of the Church. Apostles do visit ordinary members' homes. (I'm one of those ordinary members.) But there are more than a million members on the books for each one of the Twelve. It's unreasonable to expect one of them to drop everything and make a lengthy pilgrimage to the home of a particular alienated member who has indicated that she doesn't want to talk to him, merely because she's a vocal anonymous poster on a marginal message board.


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