Informing non-members about Mormonism- suggestions

[_Jason Bourne]

http://www.meridianmagazine.com/rescue/081210spouse.html

Dear Brother Barkdull,

I have recently become aware of your writings in regards to wayward children. Your messages are full of comfort and hope for parents. So far my children are active. My concern is my wife. After having some doubts about deep doctrinal issues and then learning things in church history that she did not know, she has completely turned from the Church. She no longer attends, has removed her temple garments, no longer pays tithing, drinks coffee (maybe more), and wants nothing to do with the Church.

Obviously this has been a severe blow to me and to the kids. I know there are many promises made by prophets about wayward children, but what about us who are concerned our spouse will not be our eternal companion? Is there any hope for us and them? What can I do to survive this trial and maybe even help bring her back? Honestly, it is hard to picture her ever gaining a testimony (again).

I think there are many people like me. Would you please write about this issue?

Husband of a Wayward Spouse

Seems reasonable. The spouse discovered the Mormon church isn't what it claimed to be, and decided she doesn't want anything to do with it. This is a normal process for a lot of people. Others attend a different church, find another path, or just go about their business.

What's is the Mormon's advice?

Dear Husband of a Wayward Spouse:

In my opinion, the only pain that could approach that of a wayward child is the pain associated with a wayward spouse. There are so many emotions and expectations in marriage. We live in a day when the marriage and the family are under attack. We are often blindsided by the world. The only way that I know to repair or hold things together spiritually is to apply the remedy of personal sanctification. Every effort that we make to sanctify ourselves has a redeeming effect on the person for whom we are praying. That is not to say that the wayward person does not have agency. Your effort should not be to interrupt your wife's agency; rather it should be to ask God to place opportunities in her path to urge her to use her agency to choose otherwise.

Over the course of a marriage, spouses take turns carrying the weight of the relationship. Health problems, financial concerns, and other things will intrude on the relationship and cause one of the parties to weaken for a season. You might want to think of your wife's situation as having the flu. You certainly wouldn't insist that she attend church or carry her weight in the family during her sickness. You would tenderly care for her until she was well. It seems as though your wife has the spiritual flu. Only unconditional love and patience will help her to heal. Your loving example will help her, too.

For now, why not set aside the church issues and focus on strengthening the relationship? Court her, give her compliments, love her, validate her feelings without agreeing with erroneous ideas. Give her a safe place to be sick. Be a caring confidant; if the atmosphere is safe, she might begin to share her concerns with you. Be careful how you answer; explain your beliefs only when invited and without debate. Try to pick your battles. Your marriage is more important than her drinking coffee. If and when she reconsiders someday, it will be because you loved her and waited for her. I hope your marriage doesn't end, but if it does someday, let the decision be hers. The lie that she is living will likely drive her to the point of decision; either she will need to give it up or act on it.

Here's the last thing. I doubt that her issue is the Church. People don't casually discard their beliefs and covenants unless they are dealing with something deep-seated. Your wife seems to be trying excessively hard to go opposite the gospel, and she is using anti-Mormon literature as her rationale. I would guess that she has been struggling with other non-Church issues for some time. These issues have probably lain under the surface and gnawed at her testimony until she finally read something that tipped her over. If you can discover that other issue(s) and try to deal with it, the Church issues will probably take care of themselves. Don't debate Church history issues with you wife or spend your effort trying to research answers. Remember, that is not the issue. It is almost certainly something else.

I don't think you can get through this alone. I highly recommend that you, personally, talk to a marriage and family therapist. LDS Family Services is excellent. The best thing that could happen would be that your wife went with you. She needs to talk to a [LDS] counselor to get to the root causes of her feelings and behavior. Don't force this upon her; rather, set the example by going yourself. By all means, talk to your bishop. Beyond being a good man, he has special priesthood keys for this very situation. Your solution needs to be directed by the priesthood.

You sound like a faithful, determined man who loves his wife. You have the priesthood, which is the power to save people's lives. The more you learn about your priesthood, the more power you will infuse into your life. Of all the sanctifying things that you can do to increase priesthood power, the greatest of all is temple worship. Impressions will come in that holy setting. I pray that things work out for you.

Blessings,

Larry

If this isn't a cult, then I don't know what is.

First of all who the hell is Larry and what do I care about what he says? Meridian? Please.

Second, Larrry gives some fair advice for anyone who is having marital issues.

Did he counsel divorce? Did he say dump her and find a more faithful wife?

Religion is a high priority to any active believing LDS family. Of course if one stops believing while the other still does this causes distress.

There is not one damn thing that was cult like about this. He could have been a Born Again Christian advising an active Born Again Christian about dealing with a non believing spouse.

The only major issue I have is with the paragraph all in red. I agree that it is silly to attribute her losing he belief to some underlying issue or sin (he does not say that, he says issue) or whatever. People sometimes find things and decide not to believe.

Anyway, so some advice from some dude at meridian makes the Church a cult? Hardly.

[_Jersey Girl]

I'm just going to reply in bold text within the exchanges, Jason.

Is an apologist going to be fair and balanced in presenting the Church and it's theology to folks? Can you imagine an apologist saying something to the effect, I know the Church is true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, that wordprint study by Jockers from Stanford supplies strong evidence that the work of Spalding was used to create the Book of Mormon, we believe in continuing revelation....etc.

Did I say apologists are always balanced in what they so and do?

Me: No, you didn't. You appear to require a fair and balanced view for ex-Mo's. I brought up the apologist for comparison.

Not going to happen, Jason.

Yepper.

Why place a condition on the "angry" ex-Mo that you simply couldn't place on apologists?

Because there are those that have left the church that can see it for what it is... a church that has many facets and many faces because it is made up of fallible humans. The Characterizations Anti gives if they stand alone do not paint an accurate picture. He is an anti apologist as much as the pro apologists are when he portrays the Church that way and says that is all they need to know.

Me: Yes, I know. That's why I posed the questions about apologists to you.

Are your conditions, fair and balanced or do they just apply to the ex-Mo, angry or otherwise?

Conditions for what?

Me: Your condition for a fair and balanced view. In your remarks, you criticize someone for their lack of a fair and balanced view. Those conditions are the conditions that I refer to.

[_antishock8]

Anyway, so some advice from some dude at meridian makes the Church a cult? Hardly.

His advice is endemic to the Mormon condition. He didn't develop that mindset out of thin air, Jason.

[_msnobody]

You've got to admit that when an LDS within a devout LDS family leaves the fold it generally ain't pretty.

[_harmony]

You've got to admit that when an LDS within a devout LDS family leaves the fold it generally ain't pretty.

When a Baptist leaves their family for another faith, that generally ain't pretty either. (I can testify to that, personally).

[_antishock8]

You've got to admit that when an LDS within a devout LDS family leaves the fold it generally ain't pretty.

When a Baptist leaves their family for another faith, that generally ain't pretty either. (I can testify to that, personally).

And? Why do Mormons feel the need to do this? We're not talking about Baptists. It's apples and oranges. Baptist culture, rites, rituals, and dogma are different.

That being said, yes, it ain't pretty either... But if one is leaving the Baptist movement for Mormonism, in particular, I'm sure it would get ugly. Baptists probably regard Mormons slightly higher than Muslims.

[_harmony]

When a Baptist leaves their family for another faith, that generally ain't pretty either. (I can testify to that, personally).

And? Why do Mormons feel the need to do this? We're not talking about Baptists. It's apples and oranges. Baptist culture, rites, rituals, and dogma are different.

That being said, yes, it ain't pretty either... But if one is leaving the Baptist movement for Mormonism, in particular, I'm sure it would get ugly. Baptists probably regard Mormons slightly higher than Muslims.

MsNobody seemed to think it was a Mormons-only phenomena. It's not.

[_Roger Morrison]

I think that one of the main issues that investigators need to be aware of is that Mormonism is a culture. It is not simply a Church you go to on Sunday. There is a tremendous commitment that goes along with being a member of the Church. Callings can take up as much time, or more, than a full-time job.

When you join the LDS Church, you are committing to a culture, a lifestyle...and they need to understand all that that lifestyle entails with their eyes wide open.

Well said liz. I will expand a bit, from my observations & experience, using your word, "culture." >>>>>> Cult__ure While LDSism is a "culture," and "c"s might be
benign--as LDSism can be in the public arena. However, LDSism has the undeniable markings of a Cult in its finest definition: Hiearchial, Authoritarian, Bible Literalists, unduly honouring a deceased founder, demanding obedience at the risk of excommunication, Secret Ceremonies, Sworn oaths, Exclusivity, Ritualistic, non-Democratic, closed minded leaders, Top-down admin-model, no Suggestion Boxes, Sexist---to mention some. I quickly add, LDSism is not the only such Church Cult...

This appeals to some, and not to others. If it's for you try it out...

Roger :-)

[_Trevor]

Personally, I think one can approach the issue with much less disdain for the LDS Church and help them to the same conclusion (not joining it). In fact, I think you can discuss the LDS Church in neutral terms with no intention of warning them off of it, and they will probably come to the same conclusion.

You can make a list of the obligations a really committed Mormon has:

1. three hours of church every Sunday
2. a "calling" that is like a part-time job someone else chooses for you
3. which leads to more time spent in church
4. the obligation to visit others and be visited by them on a monthly basis (more time)
5. 10% of your income goes to the church
6. additional offerings are highly encouraged
7. lifestyle restrictions (tobacco, alcohol, coffee, tea)
8. regular trips to the temple for the truly committed (more time)
9. the temple is a Masonic-like ritual
10. those who have been initiated are obligated to wear unusual underwear that imposes its own fashion restrictions
11. very many other Christians will say you are not a Christian
12. etc., etc., etc.

These are facts. They are not subjective impressions. It doesn't require that you call Mormonism a "cult." You don't have to appear bitter or bigoted to do it. Most people, based on these simple facts alone, will lose interest in joining the LDS Church, after you share them.

[_Roger Morrison]

Personally, I think one can approach the issue with much less disdain for the LDS Church and help them to the same conclusion (not joining it). In fact, I think you can discuss the LDS Church in neutral terms with no intention of warning them off of it, and they will probably come to the same conclusion.

You can make a list of the obligations a really committed Mormon has:

1. three hours of church every Sunday
2. a "calling" that is like a part-time job someone else chooses for you
3. which leads to more time spent in church
4. the obligation to visit others and be visited by them on a monthly basis (more time)
5. 10% of your income goes to the church
6. additional offerings are highly encouraged
7. lifestyle restrictions (tobacco, alcohol, coffee, tea)
8. regular trips to the temple for the truly committed (more time)
9. the temple is a Masonic-like ritual
10. those who have been initiated are obligated to wear unusual underwear that imposes its own fashion restrictions
11. very many other Christians will say you are not a Christian
12. etc., etc., etc.

These are facts. They are not subjective impressions. It doesn't require that you call Mormonism a "cult." You don't have to appear bitter or bigoted to do it. Most people, based on these simple facts alone, will lose interest in joining the LDS Church, after you share them.

Hi Trev, a nice approach. I don't know if you were/are addressing me in your above post?

IF you were, I didn't expressed distain for the LDS Church. Nor did I intend they, "...lose interest in joining..." As you, in your way considered your list objective, so do I consider the elements of a cult that I listed objective. They are found in most definitions of a "cult" that can be researched.

Some folks gravitate to a cultish style, whether they are aware of the label or not. As I suggested, "if you think it (LSDism) is for you, try it out." Do you not agree, that folks, "...try it out."?

Like ya know, eh, it (LDSism) ain't all bad as an Evengelical, Messianic church--for those seeking such a tenor of Christianism.;-)

Trev, check out your tag-line (below) for distain et al:

The LDS Church is left with a flaky story built upon a con-man, a Pre-Columbian Zombie and mythical gold plates. TAK
The author's an idiot. I have dabbled in this area before. crock

Roger :-)