"Live by the lamp of their own conceit"

[_Daniel Peterson]

I'm the true Queen of Scotland

Doesn't that make you Idi Amin's wife, or something like that?

[_harmony]

I'm the true Queen of Scotland

Doesn't that make you Idi Amin's wife, or something like that?

No, that makes me Sweet Pickles' wife, who happened to tap into a line of kings. My geneology is just one example of why it's foolish to get all wound up in pride in one's pioneer heritage.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Um. Well. Sorta. The message comes from the Brethren that pride in pioneer ancestors is to be encouraged. Converts don't have any pioneer ancestors.

Which, in your bizarre reading, means that they can't have any pride in their ancestors? Or, at least, that the Church is telling them that they shouldn't?

If that's what you're saying, I call it complete nonsense.

And please don't forget that I'm the son of a convert -- I was an adult when he joined the Church -- and the descendent of a long line of non-members.

In a related note, our Area Authority was just released. Prior to his last calling, he was the stake president. Guess what his current calling is now?... Librarian? Sunday School teacher? Deacon's quorum advisor? No... he's our newest High Councilman. (It's almost like they think there are no other men in the whole flippin' stake that are worthy to sit on the High Council.)

As a veteran of two high councils in two different stakes, I have to say that I find the notion that serving on the high council is a high prestige plum assignment, the kind of position that would be given out as an honor and a reward to a former area authority with "Mormon Royalty" lineage, really quite funny. Of all the callings I've ever held, serving on high councils has been -- by a considerable distance -- my least favorite. And it didn't feel especially high status, either.

[_harmony]

And it didn't feel especially high status, either.

Daniel, I think you're deliberately misunderstanding. It's not how you as the high councilman/bishop/sp/area authority/Brethren feel that's important here. It's how the rank and file view you (or them, as the case may be), and what you (or in this case, the Brethren) do to stop this spiritually unhealthy hero worship.

And what they don't do is treat all the members equally. Those with pioneer heritage, especially if it's pioneer leadership heritage, are dosed yearly with Mormon Heritage Pride. Hell's bells, there's even a parade in downtown SLC to celebrate Mormon Heritage Pride. Those of us who are converts (and that would not be you, although it would be your dad) are not honored with Mormon Heritage Pride. Ever. We and our ancestors are never mentioned from the GC pulpit. Ever. The only time anyone mentions my ancestors from the GC pulpit, it has nothing to do with me being told to be proud of them, as the descendents of the Utah pioneers are told to be proud of their ancestors; they're only mentioned when someone wants to know if I've done my duty and baptized them.

All anyone wants is an equal shot, Daniel. Kinda hard, though, since the Brethren themselves draw the lines in the sand.

See #6.

[_LifeOnaPlate]

See #7.

[_harmony]

See #7.

It's my list, and there is no #7. If you need a refresher, see the first page.

[_LifeOnaPlate]

See #7.

It's my list, and there is no #7. If you need a refresher, see the first page.

See #12

[_harmony]

See #12

For you, see #6.

[_Ray A]

See #12

For you, see #6.

I see.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Does Dieter Uchtdorf count?

I'm not sure. Dieter was 6 years old when his family joined the Church, so he was already a "member of record" when baptized at 8.

Also, Bednar's father wasn't a member until he (the son) was in his late 20's. Elder Holland's father was a convert. Both had multi-generational LDS mothers though.

I think Jeffrey Holland's dad, Frank, was baptized before Jeff was ever born. Also, don't forget Richard G. Scott, whose dad didn't join until late in life.

I don't think any of the Top 14 are converts in the traditional sense of the word.