A question about Fawn Brodie

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_Lamanite
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Re: A question about Fawn Brodie

Post by _Lamanite »

rcrocket wrote:Fawn Brodie was not denied access to Church archives. In her interview, as part of the Cal State Fullerton oral history program, she said "It is not quite true to say the manuscript sources were denied to me."

She says that she first negotiated, and successfully so, unfettered access to church archives. But, she decided not to use it. "I wrote to [Pres. McKay] saying I would not ask for any more material and I never went back to the church library. So, technically, I was given access, but I didn't use it." Indeed, when she lists her key library resources, she does not mention the church archives.

She explained that she didn't want to use church archives because of "an extremely difficult family situation," but I kinda wonder what she thought the publication of her book would do to her family.

Sort of a strange thing for a biographer to do, ignore the most crucial repository of documents on the studied subject.

I'm curious, as to those who have commented above, whether each of you actually possess the book. It is a remarkable literary watershed on the life of the Prophet, but few Mormons -- active or tepid believers -- actually have ever read it, much less possessed it.


I've read it. And the because she writes from the perspective of a heretic, I found the book difficult to stomach. She made no attempt at objectivity or intellectual honesty. She used quote mining, out of context quotes, and quote splits, to support her assumptions.

Moreover, the link GoodK provided above contains an interview with Fawn where where she admits to using the archives for some of her material.


Big UP!

Lamanite

PS Her biography on Jefferson was pathetic.
_rcrocket

Re: A question about Fawn Brodie

Post by _rcrocket »

If you'll check the interview, you'll see that she was granted access but chose not to use the archives -- at least what she was interested in.

I'm curious, do you possess either the Joseph Smith biography or the Thomas Jefferson biography? Or read the latter? (I don't possess the latter and haven't read it.)
_Lamanite
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Re: A question about Fawn Brodie

Post by _Lamanite »

rcrocket wrote:If you'll check the interview, you'll see that she was granted access but chose not to use the archives -- at least what she was interested in.

I'm curious, do you possess either the Joseph Smith biography or the Thomas Jefferson biography? Or read the latter? (I don't possess the latter and haven't read it.)


No. I borrowed them from the library. No man knows my history, I've had to borrow several times. I do own Isaacson's Jefferson biography. Now that's a Biography!

If it's any consolation, Nibley's rebuttal "No Ma'am that's not history", was just as bad as Brodie's book.

Big UP!

Lamanite
_rcrocket

Re: A question about Fawn Brodie

Post by _rcrocket »

Well, not having read the Jefferson biography I'm a little embarrassed to comment upon it, but it does have the reputation as having gone courageously out on a limb with respect to the Hemmings affair, and then having been proved right in the face of daunting and sarcastic criticism -- including from Gary Wills -- who got it wrong himself.

So I don't think that Brodie can be dismissed all that so easily. In the case of the Joseph Smith biography, she opened my eyes at an early age to an investigation of the truth and the strength of historical sources. Now, in my case, that led to a renewed belief in the mission of the Prophet.
_Lamanite
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Re: A question about Fawn Brodie

Post by _Lamanite »

rcrocket wrote:Well, not having read the Jefferson biography I'm a little embarrassed to comment upon it, but it does have the reputation as having gone courageously out on a limb with respect to the Hemmings affair, and then having been proved right in the face of daunting and sarcastic criticism -- including from Gary Wills -- who got it wrong himself.

So I don't think that Brodie can be dismissed all that so easily. In the case of the Joseph Smith biography, she opened my eyes at an early age to an investigation of the truth and the strength of historical sources. Now, in my case, that led to a renewed belief in the mission of the Prophet.



That's a pretty cool story actually. I don't think much of her as a historian, and I consider her a heretic, mostly because she is one. So she's not at the top of my list. I think I made a list in this thread of top notch Mormon Historians. I'm sure you've read some of them, but I would seek them out. I'd even throw Quinns name in the hat.

As far as the "strength of historical sources" go, Try Arrington's "Great Basin Kingdom". He's a first class Historian. Bushman is par exellence as a Historian. When it comes to primary sources, endnotes, bibliographies, indexes, and general historical methods he's top notch.

Big UP!

Lamanite
Last edited by Guest on Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_rcrocket

Re: A question about Fawn Brodie

Post by _rcrocket »

Lamanite wrote:
As far as the "strength of historical sources" go, Try Arrington's "Great Basin Kingdom". His a first class Historian. Bushman is par exellence as a Historian. When it comes to primary sources, endnotes, bibliographies, indexes, and general historical methods he's top notch.


I've never heard of those authors. I'll go out and get their works.
_LifeOnaPlate
_Emeritus
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Re: A question about Fawn Brodie

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

No Man Knows is on my must-read list. She is a very good writer, from a literary standpoint.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_Lamanite
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Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:07 pm

Re: A question about Fawn Brodie

Post by _Lamanite »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:No Man Knows is on my must-read list. She is a very good writer, from a literary standpoint.


From a guy who still reads Calvin and Hobbes for the esoteric social value.


Wait that's me.

Nevermind.


BIG WEEZY!

Lamanite

P.S. You didn't comment on Fawn as an Historian.
_Gadianton
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Re: A question about Fawn Brodie

Post by _Gadianton »

rcrocket wrote:I'm curious, as to those who have commented above, whether each of you actually possess the book. It is a remarkable literary watershed on the life of the Prophet, but few Mormons -- active or tepid believers -- actually have ever read it, much less possessed it.


I had not commented above, but I am willing to admit that I do not possess Brodie's book nor have I read it. I figured I didn't need to read it after having read Tinkling Symbols and Sounding Brass. Well, I really only had to skim No Ma'am That's not History because A Note on Fawn Brodie (or something like that), a one page smear piece by Nibley included in the "Tinkling Symbols" collection did such an effective job of convincing me that Brodie's book was as laughable as her unsuccessful and universally scorned biography of Thomas Jefferson. It also reaffirmed in my mind the importance of Hugh Nibley, that his scholarship is universally recognized as the pillar of objectivity.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_rcrocket

Re: A question about Fawn Brodie

Post by _rcrocket »

Just as I suspected. Lotsa talk. Nothing much more than that.

Go ahead and believe your Nibley and read nothing else.
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