Toward a Theory of Mopologetics

[_moksha]

D. C. Peterson
Abteilungsführer, Kirchenmitgliedverstärkungskommittee, Hauptquartier Salzseestadt Zentral

Wonder if President Uchtdorf might have some preference or dislike in alternately calling the SCMC the Kirchenmitgliedverstärkungskommittee. However, this change of names would require less explaining to the general membership, as to the Kommittee's purpose.

[_Trevor]

Professor Trevor, my dear friend, why on Earth would you think I'm interested in "controlling" you? Do you see me praising individual posts of yours, publicly, when they support some ideology of mine? I have to say, I am baffled at the way you have lashed out here. It is very much out of character.

I'm on to you Scratch, old boy. You can't pull the wool over my eyes with your faux innocence. There is something distinctly tinged with the sinister in all of this. Who knows what kind of Byzantine plot you are entangled in that involves Martians, the SCMC, and the Salamander Society, all in one fell swoop!

Surely you must realize that I, a simple and humble anonymous poster on a messageboard cannot do much of anything to "control" you. By all means, my dear Prof. T., if you want to be two-faced, then go ahead and be two-faced.

Of course, Scratchey!!! By all means! Thanks very much for clueing me in to the fact that I am free to be two-faced. Now that I have your "by-your-leaves" I can proceed with my serial betrayals. Only a "humble" man like yourself could condescend to provide me such liberty. You are too kind.

Stake in what? Mormonism writ-large, or this thread? Would you feel better if I praised your "student of the mysteries" hypothesis?

Oh would you? I promise I will become one of your secret informants if only you would praise me. I just swoon at the possibility that a humble anonymous poster like you would call me clever. It's all I ask! Then I can turn on Dr. Peterson and feed you all kinds of juicy tidbits about his shopping habits at Albertsons, etc. How I relish the thought of it. You figured me out. All it takes is a little praise, and I put out like a cheap whore. That's a pathetic professor for you.

Oh Scratch, how I long for the good old days, before Dr. Peterson's praise turned me.

[_harmony]

All it takes is a little praise, and I put out like a cheap whore. That's a pathetic professor for you.

We really need to do something about the pay professors bring home these days. Cheap, indeed.

[_Trevor]

We really need to do something about the pay professors bring home these days. Cheap, indeed.

It's a lost cause. The price of motivating people to value learning these days would be the huge, hidden cost to sink the whole deal. It is a losing proposition.

[_Mister Scratch]

Oh would you? I promise I will become one of your secret informants if only you would praise me.

Trevor:

Your posts are both insightful and entertaining, and I always look forward to reading them. In particular, I admire your deep knowledge of Mopologetics, and of the motivations of LDS apologists. Your idea about "students of the mysteries" was especially provocative, and I think it goes a long ways towards explaining, say, LoaP's pestering behavior, or Pahoran's general meanness, or DCP's gossipmongering about Mike Quinn. Really, I cannot help but feel "humbled" by the fact that you obviously know so much more about apologists' motivation than myself, Gadianton, Dr. Shades, or any number of other posters.

[_Trevor]

Your posts are both insightful and entertaining, and I always look forward to reading them. In particular, I admire your deep knowledge of Mopologetics, and of the motivations of LDS apologists. Your idea about "students of the mysteries" was especially provocative, and I think it goes a long ways towards explaining, say, LoaP's pestering behavior, or Pahoran's general meanness, or DCP's gossipmongering about Mike Quinn. Really, I cannot help but feel "humbled" by the fact that you obviously know so much more about apologists' motivation than myself, Gadianton, Dr. Shades, or any number of other posters.

It is refreshing to see my sincerity echoed back at me. But no, Scratch, it is I who am humbled by your ability to attribute everything in Mopologetics to something sinister, deceptive, ignorant, juvenile, or neurotic. You are truly a model to us all. I could never hope to find what you see in Mopologetics. It takes a special perspective to bring out your unique insights into the dark heart of it all. Here's to another year of obsessive fixation on a middle-aged Islamicist from BYU. Surely it will be worth every last ounce of the effort you put into it. Creative writing is, after all, your real forté.

[_Mister Scratch]

It is refreshing to see my sincerity echoed back at me. But no, Scratch, it is I who am humbled by your ability to attribute everything in Mopologetics to something sinister, deceptive, ignorant, juvenile, or neurotic.

Trevor---

I've said all along that I am only interested in criticizing the portions of Mopologetics that are bad. I see no reason to rip on Richard Bushman, or Marlin Jensen, or the aspects of Mopologetics that are conscientious and more or less positive. So, I'm not really sure what you're getting at. You claim, on the one hand, that (in your words) you enjoy seeing the "absurdities" of Mormonism being exposed, and yet here you seem to be calling for an end to precisely that sort of "exposing." You know what I mean? Surely you can understand my confusion over just what, exactly, you're getting at here. Are you asking me to discuss the "positives" of Mopologetics? Are you requesting that I adjust my posting style? What? If you'd like me to do a thread in which we talk about how nice LDS apologists are, and how wonderful and uplifting FARMS Review can be, then let me know.

In any event, if I did anything that hurt your feelings or upset you over the "student of the mysteries" thing, then you have my sincere apologies. In all honesty, Trevor, I just fail to see how your observations do anything to explain the apologists' bad behavior. And, at base, explaining the apologists' bad behavior is what this thread was supposed to be about.

[_LifeOnaPlate]

It is refreshing to see my sincerity echoed back at me. But no, Scratch, it is I who am humbled by your ability to attribute everything in Mopologetics to something sinister, deceptive, ignorant, juvenile, or neurotic.

Trevor---

I've said all along that I am only interested in criticizing the portions of Mopologetics that are bad. I see no reason to rip on Richard Bushman, or Marlin Jensen, or the aspects of Mopologetics that are conscientious and more or less positive. So, I'm not really sure what you're getting at. You claim, on the one hand, that (in your words) you enjoy seeing the "absurdities" of Mormonism being exposed, and yet here you seem to be calling for an end to precisely that sort of "exposing." You know what I mean?

A few things. Trevor currently disbelieves in Mormonism on the whole. You, on the other hand, pretend to be a defender of the faith by defending it from Dan Peterson. (In reality I see a personal grudge driven by your feeling that Dan Peterson somehow got you banned from the MAD board a while back, but that is another matter entirely.) So he's not really calling an end to "exposing," he is calling an end to absurd conspiracy theories and constant insulting. You don't seem to be one who likes anything about the church. In short, your internet personality completely lacks any sense of balance, and comes across as rather fixated and deranged. Again, I would like to meet you in person and have a real conversation. I think that would help me understand, and perhaps help you understand me as well.

Surely you can understand my confusion over just what, exactly, you're getting at here. Are you asking me to discuss the "positives" of Mopologetics? Are you requesting that I adjust my posting style? What? If you'd like me to do a thread in which we talk about how nice LDS apologists are, and how wonderful and uplifting FARMS Review can be, then let me know.

I'd love to see it. What do you like about Mormonism? What were the top ten great Mormon things that went on last year? What is good about FARMS or the Review, or Dan Peterson? etc. I would love to see it.

In any event, if I did anything that hurt your feelings or upset you over the "student of the mysteries" thing, then you have my sincere apologies. In all honesty, Trevor, I just fail to see how your observations do anything to explain the apologists' bad behavior.

What of your bad behavior? I think that is part of what he is driving at.

And, at base, explaining the apologists' bad behavior is what this thread was supposed to be about.

Odd, that. I supposed it was to be a general theory of mopologetics. No wonder I found it entirely self-serving and polemical. Something Bushman or Turley would not have published, that is certain. So those you loathe you parrot? And those you respect you seek not to follow?

[_Trevor]

I've said all along that I am only interested in criticizing the portions of Mopologetics that are bad.

I guess we judge different things about it to be bad, and react to what we judge as bad differently. I disagree with you. I have consistently told you so, even in that PM.

I see no reason to rip on Richard Bushman, or Marlin Jensen, or the aspects of Mopologetics that are conscientious and more or less positive.

I see nothing to disagree with there.

You claim, on the one hand, that (in your words) you enjoy seeing the "absurdities" of Mormonism being exposed, and yet here you seem to be calling for an end to precisely that sort of "exposing."

Is the slippage here between Mormonism and Mopologetics deliberate?

Are you asking me to discuss the "positives" of Mopologetics? Are you requesting that I adjust my posting style? What? If you'd like me to do a thread in which we talk about how nice LDS apologists are, and how wonderful and uplifting FARMS Review can be, then let me know.

I disagreed with you. I stated an opinion at variance with what you believe. I never said I wanted anything from you, except in jest. That about covers how seriously I am taking all of this. So, please don't knock yourself out. You really aren't sufficiently significant to my life to worry about, so please don't worry about our disagreement. I don't want to feel obligated to care about this any more than I do, which is vanishingly little.

In any event, if I did anything that hurt your feelings or upset you over the "student of the mysteries" thing, then you have my sincere apologies. In all honesty, Trevor, I just fail to see how your observations do anything to explain the apologists' bad behavior. And, at base, explaining the apologists' bad behavior is what this thread was supposed to be about.

You don't mean this, and I don't take you seriously. So, in my book, we are even. I wish you no ill will. Whatever it is you are up to, and at this point I am losing a) the thread of it all, and b) any real concern over it, I hope you fare well in the end. Please don't let me keep you from this fantastical personal script you are playing out, if it leads to a better tomorrow for you.

I recently saw a film in which the mutterings of the mad were treated with respect, because in the end the mad might just find the abstruse solution to whatever Gordian knot their minds are tied in. That image seems appropriate just about now, and it may apply to both of us in our own respective ways. Pax tecum.

[_Trevor]

Trevor currently disbelieves in Mormonism on the whole.

This remains true. What has recently changed, and partly thanks to this thread, is my sense of hostility toward those who believe in and/or defend Mormonism. I don't deny the rest of you your right to work out your personal demons, fight the power, or whatever, I am simply losing my angst over it all and the feeling that I want to crusade against all of these perceived injustices--i.e. the things that motivated me personally. Mormonism is what it is. I am happy to talk about those aspects of it I find interesting. I really don't want to continue to fight with apologists, so I won't, as much as I am able to resist the urge, should that urge arise again. My choice, and no big deal.

I also think that a convert can easily forget on some level what was good about life before conversion. I am not going back, but I won't say it was all bad when I was there. And yes, there are parts of it I really miss. Once you disbelieve to a certain degree, it would be very hard to believe again, and I don't want to anyway. Been there, done that.