An interview with Armand Mauss

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_harmony
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Re: An interview with Armand Mauss

Post by _harmony »

Lamanite wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:Doesn't look like I added much substance to that thread. And I killed it. :[


Apparently Daniel you need to finish reading Kuhn first before you can participate in any other threads!!!


:lol:


Shalom Rabbi Shlomo


Lamanite


Daniel?
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Lamanite
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Re: An interview with Armand Mauss

Post by _Lamanite »

harmony wrote:
Daniel?


Yeah...I've got it on good authority that Mr. Scratch is Kishkumen and DCP is LOAP.

by the way what is POTF? (It's very late for my brain to decipher)


As for me, I tend to be a liberal Mormon Universalist who loves extreme orthodoxy. I think I wanted to become a Chasidic Jew because in some way I thought the orthodoxy would save me. I didn't and it didn't.

I don't like scriptural literalism but I do like our distinct identity within Christendom.

I weird

Big UP!

Lamanite
_ludwigm
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Re: An interview with Armand Mauss

Post by _ludwigm »

Lamanite wrote:... by the way what is POTF? ...

POTF can be read here

[quote=POTF]...
All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents
including heavenly mother ???
...
We declare that God's commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force
up to overpopulation of the world ???
...
the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman
how many of them ???
...
lawfully wedded as husband and wife
may it be civil law ???
...
This proclamation was read by President Gordon B. Hinckley as part of his message at the General Relief Society Meeting held September 23, 1995, in Salt Lake City, Utah.
and was signed by the 12+3, so it is doctrinal
[/quote]
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
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_bcspace
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Re: An interview with Armand Mauss

Post by _bcspace »

The whole Prop 8 thing I think was, in part, a reaction to the rest of the country's rejection of Romney.


Which was in large part due to his perceived weakness against key social issues like gay marriage.
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_Lamanite
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Re: An interview with Armand Mauss

Post by _Lamanite »

ludwigm wrote:
Lamanite wrote:... by the way what is POTF? ...

POTF can be read here

[quote=POTF]...
All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents
including heavenly mother ???
...
We declare that God's commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force
up to overpopulation of the world ???
...
the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman
how many of them ???
...
lawfully wedded as husband and wife
may it be civil law ???
...
This proclamation was read by President Gordon B. Hinckley as part of his message at the General Relief Society Meeting held September 23, 1995, in Salt Lake City, Utah.
and was signed by the 12+3, so it is doctrinal
[/quote]


POTF=Proclamation on the Family. I just couldn't put that one together last night.

Thanks

Lamanite
_Jason Bourne
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Re: An interview with Armand Mauss

Post by _Jason Bourne »

I Like Mauss. He ha keen insite.

2) From the viewpoint of the “religious economy” model recently popularized by Stark et al. (and by Laurence Moore among historians), might we understand the strains between Mormons and Evangelicals in part as a natural result of competing for “customers” in the same market niche? The moderately educated, upwardly mobile segment of American society seems to be the main stratum from which both Mormons and Evangelicals are drawing their converts. Ultimately, how much of the tension between Mormons and Evangelicals is theological and how much is sociological?


So much for idea that the church targets converts from people with money or, conversely, the poor. On the contrary, it targets the middle class.


I do not think that is what he said. He said that the converts are coming from these groups not that they are targeting these groups. That said, I think that is the preferred customer. However, I am not sure I agree that this is where most are coming from in the US, at least where I live. It seems they are coming from the lower middle class and poor.

3) What is the impact on the Mormon leadership and grassroots of the unwillingness to accept Mormons as Christians – an issue very much highlighted for Mormons by the Romney campaign? Is the tension over this issue likely to accelerate Mormon assimilation into the American mainstream, or have the opposite effect – i. e. encourage a new retrenchment and “circling of the wagons”? Will the effect be different among U. S. Mormons than among Mormons elsewhere (who are now the majority of the world’s Mormons)?


This I found highly interesting. I think what we're seeing currently is a retrenchment, and a deep one at that.


Could you outline why? I agree that we have seen one for most of my life. But I am interested in your views. I thought President Hinckley was loosening up a bit. I am not sure what President Monson will do. He certainly seems less in the public eye. Has he interacted with any news people or media outside LDS mainstream since he was first made prophet and gave the obligatory interview in the Joseph Smith Building?

Further:

Of course, the major symptoms of assimilation were the abandonment of polygamy, theocracy, collectivist economic experiments, the adoption of American 2-party politics, and the embrace of American patriotism. Theologically, during the first half of the 20th century, LDS leaders such as Talmage, Widtsoe, and Roberts undertook to codify and “Christianize” LDS theology, and to emphasize use of the King James Bible over the use of the Book of Mormon.


So all those revelations were... kicked to the curb? We should be so lucky.... (my comments in italics within the quote)


Please clarify.

Then, after midcentury, symptoms of retrenchment were a new emphasis upon use of the Book of Mormon {Pres Benson's charge that the church was under condemnation because of the lack of emphasis on the Book of Mormon, in the early 80's}; a renewed focus on the president of the church as a prophet (with additions to the D & C for the first time in the century, recurrent slogans about following the prophet and obedience) {again, Pres Benson}; the centralization and standardization of the church program and administration known as “correlation;” {Pres Hinckley?} great expansion in such “peculiar” Mormon programs as genealogy, temple-building, missionary work, and religious education (seminary and institute programs) {Pres Hinckley's push} – all of which had languished for decades; and finally a renewal and redefinition of the LDS theology of the family, with a conservative definition of women’s roles {the subjucation of women outlined in the POTF} and an ongoing program to bolster the nuclear family institution as a bulwark against the creeping vices of sexual indulgence, substance use or abuse, and many other social ills afflicting American society since the 1960s.



Hinckley was not the main mover on Correlation. Lee was.

Addressing Mormon culture:

For Mormons, living in a certain way is more important than believing in a certain way.

Truer words were never spoken. Amen and amen!


Ideally, people will learn both correct belief and correct behavior from membership in the LDS community, but it is the behavioral boundaries that really define the Mormon identity.


So... someone please tell me that I'm wrong when I say Mormon culture defines the church, not Mormon doctrine.


Unfortunately I think you are correct.
_Jason Bourne
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Re: An interview with Armand Mauss

Post by _Jason Bourne »

And as far as Prop 8 is concerned, I think it was an opportunity to deliver a resounding slap to the rest of the country, who had just rejected the Mormon answer to George Bush


I think you may be correct on this though I am sure that was not what drove prop 8 support. Still, you have to give credit to Mormons. They seem to wield much more influence than their numbers would warrant. That has the send a political message at times.
_cinepro
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Re: An interview with Armand Mauss

Post by _cinepro »

Off topic: Until the day I die, this is what POTF will mean to me.
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