Women and the Priesthood--Question for DCP

[_The Nehor]

Pressures from where? Polygamy might qualify. President Woodruff makes it clear that God did this to save the Saints. He also stated he would have seen us destroyed if God commanded it. The best evidence I've seen on actual pressure for the Priesthood Ban being lifted suggests we were doing it to make sure BYU teams aren't ostracized? That sounds ridiculous to me. That's still only twice in 200 years of revelation.

Okay, I'll play.

You seriously think, even though the entire nation was on an anti-racism movement, that BYU sports was the only reason that the church abandoned it policies? I believe it was the catalyst that started it, but there is no doubt the church was under enormous pressure, whether direct or indirect, to change the ban.

As for other revelations, I don't know of any that have changed policy or doctrine. Can you enlighten me to some?

No, I think it began with President Snow being unsure of the ban, continued when Pres. McKay and Pres. Lee prayed about it, and ended with Pres. Kimball though I don't know why God waited.

I do agree with DCP that the worst of the pressure on the Church was over in the late 70's. The Civil Rights movement wasn't targeting us and had written us off as a couple of nutjobs and fervor for racial equality was down (as it had mostly been achieved).

Sure, the whole CHI, the change in organization of the 70's, the entire D&C, the Proclamation on the Family, the creation and dedication of Temples, the 'every member a missionary', the two-year mission as a duty for young men, the Perpetual Education Fund, the recent overhaul in our genealogy databases, the discovery that Bill Oddie is the AntiChrist, and many more major and minor changes that would bore everyone to recount.

[_Daniel Peterson]

I think the construction of the Sao Paulo Temple was a far more important factor in precipitating the 1978 revelation than any external pressure.

[_The Nehor]

Huh, interesting. While searching for some information on BYU sports and the ban, I ran across this article. It says,

Church prohibits black children from being Boy Scout leaders
Since the early part of the 20th century, each LDS ward has organized its own Boy Scouting troop. Although never denied participation in scouting, a policy called for the deacon quorum president (a priesthood office held by 12 and 13 year old boys) to be the troop leader, excluding black children from that role. The NAACP filed a federal lawsuit in 1974 challenging this racist practice, and soon thereafter the LDS church reversed its policy. Today, even non-Mormons can be leaders of an LDS Boy Scout troop.

I didn't know this. Sounds like this might have been more of a catalyst than the BYU sports boycott.

Losing our connection with the Boy Scouts would hardly be a catastrophe. We've had a Young Women's Program for years, we can make a Young Men's one too. Is it wrong that I was half-hoping that the BSA would let in gay troop leaders a few years back so we would sever?

I think you can draw these kinds of parallels too easily. If it had changed in the 40's, 50's, or 60's you could easily point out some event that pressured the change. If women were to receive the Priesthood tomorrow people would begin championing the 'pressure' placed on the LDS Church from some event or series of events as causing it when the pressure (what little there is) is mostly unchanging.

[_Scottie]

I think the construction of the Sao Paulo Temple was a far more important factor in precipitating the 1978 revelation than any external pressure.

Latinos could get the priesthood, couldn't they? I thought it was ONLY those of African descent?

[_Daniel Peterson]

Latinos could get the priesthood, couldn't they? I thought it was ONLY those of African descent?

A huge issue in Brazil.

[_Scottie]

I think you can draw these kinds of parallels too easily. If it had changed in the 40's, 50's, or 60's you could easily point out some event that pressured the change. If women were to receive the Priesthood tomorrow people would begin championing the 'pressure' placed on the LDS Church from some event or series of events as causing it when the pressure (what little there is) is mostly unchanging.

I suppose that is possible, and I was only 6 years old when the ban was lifted. For the most part, I'm going by what people say. It appears that this was an exceptionally charged period in US history, so I don't think that we are giving undue attention to outside pressures.

Can you name another policy change that was made? Lets analyze it. And, no, moving primary from Tuesday to Sunday doesn't count.

[_Scottie]

A huge issue in Brazil.

Okay. I'll defer to your knowledge here, since I know very little about Brazil.

Still, this would be considered outside pressure, no?

[_Daniel Peterson]

A huge issue in Brazil.

Okay. I'll defer to your knowledge here, since I know very little about Brazil.

Still, this would be considered outside pressure, no?

No. Not really. Not in my mind.

Elder LeGrand Richards said that the Sao Paulo Temple was much on their minds, and recent biographies of President Kimball have indicated how much it was on his. He worried about the faithful Brazilian Saints who contributed to the construction of the temple and yearned for its completion but would not be able to enter it after its dedication.

[_The Nehor]

I think you can draw these kinds of parallels too easily. If it had changed in the 40's, 50's, or 60's you could easily point out some event that pressured the change. If women were to receive the Priesthood tomorrow people would begin championing the 'pressure' placed on the LDS Church from some event or series of events as causing it when the pressure (what little there is) is mostly unchanging.

I suppose that is possible, and I was only 6 years old when the ban was lifted. For the most part, I'm going by what people say. It appears that this was an exceptionally charged period in US history, so I don't think that we are giving undue attention to outside pressures.

Can you name another policy change that was made? Lets analyze it. And, no, moving primary from Tuesday to Sunday doesn't count.

I named quite a few earlier. Which would you like to look at?

[_CaliforniaKid]

Liz,

Susan Staker argues fairly persuasively that the purpose of giving Nauvoo women some priesthood prerogatives was so they would be under oath and obligation to keep the Church's secrets. I'm not sure Brigham can be accused of controverting Smith's ostensibly magnanimous attitude toward women if that attitude was predicated on ulterior, exploitative motives.

Best,

-Chris