Joseph Smith Papers Volume 1

[_Daniel Peterson]

And I've never commented on a book I haven't read.

My experience, my dear, is that you have read precious few books dealing with the church and its history, yet you feel competent to comment upon books and history all the time.

Remember when you thought "An Address to All Believers in Christ" was an actual sermon somewhere? Critical lack of knowledge of history, combined with malevolent intent and hatred of the Brethren, combines to bring about foolishness. The kind of foolishness Proverbs talks about repeatedly.

If I'm not mistaken, harmony was caught entirely by surprise by the mammoth Joseph Smith Papers project just a few short weeks ago -- something that has been much talked about in informed Mormon circles, and written about and discussed on the radio and explained on television, not just for months but for years.

[_harmony]

If I'm not mistaken, harmony was caught entirely by surprise by the mammoth Joseph Smith Papers project just a few short weeks ago -- something that has been much talked about in informed Mormon circles, and written about and discussed on the radio and explained on television, not just for months but for years.

Daniel, Daniel, Daniel (and Robert Robert Robert). We've had this discussion before. I don't run in your exalted circles (since none of my acquaintences cares diddly about an LDS apologist book none of us is going to buy, we don't discuss it), my real life interests don't run in tandem with yours (so I wouldn't be spending my time or money on the things you spend yours on), and *gasp* no one pays me to read church history. They pay me a decent wage to raise millions of dollars for my employer, to read studies and books related to my profession, and to train and lead staff and volunteers.

What little LDS apologist reading I get is from Sunstone, and that's just fine with me. Either discuss whatever is bugging you today or don't... it matters little to me either way. I'll learn from whoever puts up the best argument. Right now, my learning is following Jersey's thread on the Jockers study. Next week, maybe it will be your turn.

[_rcrocket]

Just a suggestion: Put the Bible on your reading list.

[_Daniel Peterson]

If I'm not mistaken, harmony was caught entirely by surprise by the mammoth Joseph Smith Papers project just a few short weeks ago -- something that has been much talked about in informed Mormon circles, and written about and discussed on the radio and explained on television, not just for months but for years.

Daniel, Daniel, Daniel (and Robert Robert Robert). We've had this discussion before. I don't run in your exalted circles

It scarcely requires running in "exalted circles" to have been aware of the Joseph Smith Papers project. It's been a very big item of news and discussion for a long time. It's been discussed in the Church News and the Ensign. It's been discussed in newspapers in and out of Utah. It's been discussed on radio and on television. It's even been discussed quite a bit on blogs and message boards.

since none of my acquaintences cares diddly about an LDS apologist book none of us is going to buy

We're talking about thirty books. We're talking about thirty non-apologist books.

And the first volume's first printing was entirely sold out within days. I haven't even managed to get mine yet -- though I now know that it's waiting for me at the BYU Bookstore.

my real life interests don't run in tandem with yours (so I wouldn't be spending my time or money on the things you spend yours on)

That's fine.

But you routinely comment on Mormon history and Mormon historical scholarship as if you actually knew something about it.

and *gasp* no one pays me to read church history.

Nobody pays me to read Church history, either.

What little LDS apologist reading I get is from Sunstone

ROTFL!

Oh, that's priceless.

Wonderful!

You get your apologist reading from Sunstone?

Oh yes. That's a keeper!

[_antishock8]

They did not have to lie.. Just steer the facts in a different direction and avoid certain topics. Which is precisely what they did.

Tak,

Isn't that kind of deceitful handling of information lying? Purposefully committing the sin of omission in order to further a position is devoid of ethical scholorship, no?

[_antishock8]

Just a suggestion: Put the Bible on your reading list.

Lamentations 1:17:

Zion spreadeth forth her hands, and there is none to comfort her: the LORD hath commanded concerning Jacob, that his adversaries should be round about him: Jerusalem is as a menstruous woman among them.

----------

Well. Hrm. I say put that Bible away. Seems to me the god of the Bible is a dick.

Oh. Wait. NOW I understand why Mr. Crockett likes the Bible. He relates to it.

[_TAK]

They did not have to lie.. Just steer the facts in a different direction and avoid certain topics. Which is precisely what they did.

Tak,

Isn't that kind of deceitful handling of information lying? Purposefully committing the sin of omission in order to further a position is devoid of ethical scholorship, no?

That’s why bias is so significant in this text.

If the authors believed that BY could not be responsible for the murders and assembled the facts accordingly then I think its difficult to make the case for being purposeful in “committing the sin of omission”.. You would need to know the minds of the authors to say they were lying.

[_Dr. Shades]

By dismissing the book as "irretrievably flawed" apart from any consideration of the evidence adduced in it or the quality of the analysis exhibited in it -- the two fundamental and salient criteria on which to judge a work of history -- and on the basis merely of the authors' religious adherence and employment, you commit the classic logical fallacy of "poisoning the well of discourse" (on which, see the historical background of John Henry Newman's coining of the phrase) and an absolutely classic ad hominem.

Perhaps, but didn't beastie, in this thread, adequately prove that authorial bias did indeed taint the book beyond any hope of redemption?

If nothing else, after all is said and done, the following blank still cannot be filled in: "Although the authors of Massacre at Mountain Meadows had a conflict of interest, it is clear that this conflict didn't compromise the book in any way, because if it had, then they wouldn't have included the part about ________________."

I'm kind of curious as to what kind of person you are in real life, using vuglarities when discussing religion with people of faith? Make sure you make gas oven jokes with the friends of yours who are Jews.

If you find the use of the word "Morgasm" to be on equal footing with the Holocaust, then I respectfully suggest that you're doing the victims a grave disservice by trivializing their memories so.

At the risk of sounding heretical, I concur with Dan: the Joseph Smith Papers project is the most scholarly endeavor sponsored by the LDS church—at least in my lifetime. (I purchased multiple copies of the first volume for me and my fiancée.) The JSP volumes should be in the library of every serious student of Mormonism.

Perhaps, but did the LDS church allow any items to slip through which reflect in any way negatively on either Joseph Smith or Mormonism in general?

[_Daniel Peterson]

Perhaps, but did the LDS church allow any items to slip through which reflect in any way negatively on either Joseph Smith or Mormonism in general?

My prediction is that many here will know that it did not, and that the whole project was dishonest to the core, while avoiding actual exposure to the project's thirty volumes with all the prim purity of an especially fastidious Vestal virgin.

[_Dr. Shades]

Perhaps, but did the LDS church allow any items to slip through which reflect in any way negatively on either Joseph Smith or Mormonism in general?

My prediction is that many here will know that it did not, and that the whole project was dishonest to the core, while avoiding actual exposure to the project's thirty volumes with all the prim purity of an especially fastidious Vestal virgin.

I'm quite willing to be proven wrong. When you pick up your copy from the BYU bookstore, please share with us a document found between the covers therein which reflects negatively on either Joseph Smith or Mormonism in general.