in real life - How often do you see people leaving the church?

[_harmony]

20 years ago, my ward was split. Now, the rumor is we're going to be combined again, because the other ward is simply dying.

My ward has a 85% activity rate, which is down 10% from previous years. Our numbers of missionaries out is down.

We are a rural ward, with a long history of ward cohesiveness. No doubt we are not average, but then my ward wants to be the first ward translated without death... or at least that's my SP wife's ambition.

[_Maxrep]

I know apologists will deny this happens, but I have some pretty good evidence that members do not want to know any of this stuff.

So do I - lots of it. I've sat before bishops, stake presidents, and in meetings where I've been asked, "will you make a serious effort to stop reading anti-Mormon literature?" They don't care about it, and they don't want to know about it. It's poison you don't touch if you want to keep believing. I've known of many cases where a brother or sister has said that they "briefly read" some anti literature and were shaken by it, so they never read it again because it "plants too many doubts in your mind". To them it's like the "slime" you avoid while holding on to the Iron Rod.

As a youth, I can remember being told that anti-literature was "Spiritual Pornography". Have to give them credit for that catchy sound bite :) .

[_krose]

what I would like to know is how many college educated adults in America are jo[in]ing the church each year.

(Or anywhere else, for that matter.)

A very good question. From my own experiences and from reading letters and reports of current and recent missionaries I know, it seems that the majority of converts are the disadvantaged: poor, uneducated, and/or emotionally or psychologically troubled. Also the very young.



.

[_Mercury]

what I would like to know is how many college educated adults in America are joing the church each year.

And THAT is the crux of the issue. If you take 5 minutes to educate yourself about Mormonism without the hard sell of Mormonism what is the result?

I think the church was better off in the 80's as a quirky religion everyone knew about but knew nothing of. Now of course it seems the biggest "enemy" of Mormonism is a google search.

[_Mercury]

(Or anywhere else, for that matter.)

A very good question. From my own experiences and from reading letters and reports of current and recent missionaries I know, it seems that the majority of converts are the disadvantaged: poor, uneducated, and/or emotionally or psychologically troubled. Also the very young.



.

You can't fix stupid. MormonCorp is going to degenerate further and further into obscurity, the poor and disenfranchized sucking up nourishment, hopefully bleeding it dry.

[_mentalgymnast]

I still think the church needs to take inoculation seriously.

Blake Ostler...

http://www.blakeostler.com/

...is a serious proponent of that. I agree.

I have personally been acquainted with one person (back in the seventies) who apostatized from the church. A USC Institute director who started questioning the brethren. Before I went on my mission back in 1973 this fellow helped me pull an engine out of a '61' beetle and get it back in. Valve job. He was a mentor to me in my youth and a good friend of my father.

He left the church while I was out on my mission.

Besides him I have never personally known any one personally who has left the church. I read/hear about it online a lot though so it must be true.

Regards,
MG

[_JoetheClerk]

Why would anyone in leadership in the LDS Church oppose Truth. Joseph Smith said all truth was part of The Gospel. Has this changed?

Yes, I agree with Boyd Packer that 'some things that are true aren't very useful', but that does not mean I avoid learning truth because of it. Knowing what is actually true and not propaganda is helpful in understanding what is 'useful' and what is not. That does change as I learn more.

I still think many who go to Church do so more as a social thing than anything else. Utah/Idaho/Arizona and OrangeCounty/LDS enclaves are especially big on this one. Not going has an effect on your business and ability to make a living. Social pressure and money lost plays a big part in activity rates as compared to outright quitting.

[_Scottie]

Why would anyone in leadership in the LDS Church oppose Truth. Joseph Smith said all truth was part of The Gospel. Has this changed?

I don't believe the church has ever been interested in "the truth". We have proof that Joseph flat out lied about his polygamous activities. The LDS church has a long history of lies and deceit. So when you ask has something changed, no, nothing has changed.

The members have canned saying such as "presentism", "it was taken out of context", "milk before meat" and "lying for the Lord" that help them to feel better about giving misleading, or even false information to people.

[_John Larsen]

I think the brethren are right on this one. Inoculation would only work if the Church history were not so damning and its truth claims false. As it is, it would just accelerate the rate of apostasy. The way to keep the membership is to stress that the only true knowledge comes from the brethren and it is impossible for the brethren to lead the Church astray.

This will keep them from getting all but the most damaged or incurious people as coverts in the post Google era. But it will allow them to keep the members they've got. Just so long as the keep having kids.

[_harmony]

You can't fix stupid. MormonCorp is going to degenerate further and further into obscurity, the poor and disenfranchized sucking up nourishment, hopefully bleeding it dry.

Not for a long long time. At least, not as long as the BIC continue to have children.