It was just "political"

[_harmony]

Since I haven't had to do any of those there is a fourth way...the criticisms are wrong.

The old "head in the sand" trick. Yeah, that works too.

[_bcspace]

Since I haven't had to do any of those there is a fourth way...the criticisms are wrong.

The old "head in the sand" trick. Yeah, that works too.

I've read through a lot of claims. Where is the evidence? How does it address the Book of Mormon statements that the divisions were political by the time of Christ and thereafter?

[_cinepro]

A common apologetic is to refer to the Lamanites and Nephites as just "political" entities in order to evade science.

It was just political by the time of Christ and shortly thereafter. But you'd have to have actually read the Book of Mormon to know that......

That's interesting that even in Mormon's day, they still kept the different names:

8 And it came to pass in this year there began to be a war between the Nephites, who consisted of the Nephites and the Jacobites and the Josephites and the Zoramites; and this war was between the Nephites, and the Lamanites and the Lemuelites and the Ishmaelites.

9 Now the Lamanites and the Lemuelites and the Ishmaelites were called Lamanites, and the two parties were Nephites and Lamanites.

You'd think that 800 years after Lehi and 300 years after Christ they would have intermingled with enough of the Natives that such distinctions would be more difficult. Weird.

And Mormon certainly cared enough about lineage that he knew he was a descendant of Nephi (v5). Was that a political distinction too?

[_Gadianton]

Joseph Smith was also a direct, pure-blooded descendent of Joseph who was sold into Egypt.

[_ludwigm]

Joseph Smith was also a direct, pure-blooded descendent of Joseph who was sold into Egypt.

He should have been sold too. Into New Zealand.
Or into Antarctic. Or Atlantis. Or Utopia. Or any place far enough.

[_harmony]

Joseph Smith was also a direct, pure-blooded descendent of Joseph who was sold into Egypt.

A cute trick, considering that Joseph sold into Egypt didn't exist.

[_moksha]

It hasn't changed much. The Nephi Project is now promoting the idea that "Book of Mormon lands" were in Peru.

Peru - The Land of the Book of Mormon.

Quake triggered collapse of an ancient Peru society, scientists say

Excerpt: The Supe Valley, about 120 miles north of Lima, lies in Peru's coastal desert. When the first humans -- a group that has no formal name but is often called the Supe society -- occupied the region about 5,800 years ago, the bays along the coastline provided an abundant source of fish and shellfish. Fresh water carried by rivers from the inland mountains provided water for drinking and irrigation.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-earlyquake20-2009jan21,0,853296.story

More proof of some sort.

[_Mercury]

More proof of some sort.

More proof of what?

[_John Larsen]

More proof of some sort.

More proof of what?

Hey, maybe they will show that there were also wars of some sort which would be double proof. But if can show that prophets successfully predicted earthquakes, war and famine--triple threat!

[_solomarineris]

A common apologetic is to refer to the Lamanites and Nephites as just "political" entities in order to evade science. It turns out plenty of other stuff in the scriptures was also just "political" rather than real.

Remember that one about the earth being divided in the "days of peleg"?

Here is Rudolf Siebach from the FAIR blog:

I fondly recall Professors Morris Peterson, Ken Hamblin, Lehi Hintze and others chatting with us students around campfires during geology field trips. I recall them making the point that there were better interpretations than the highly creative interpretation that it was the continents which were divided during the days of Peleg. These professors were the ones that first introduced me to the plainer understanding that “divided” was more likely intended to communicate a political reality ... They reinforced the fact that there is little biblical and no physical evidence to go out on a geological limb to claim that Gen. 10:25 refers to a catastrophic episode of continental drift.

http://www.fairblog.org/2008/12/01/inve ... -in-peleg/
(Of a secondary curiosity, are "Morris" and "Ken" call names for the senior apologists we all know, or are they distinct individuals who also teach at BYU? I suppose a further curiosity would be, does there exist a Peterson and Hamblin duo of some sort in many BYU departments?)

I only know Lehi Hintze's work.
Because I am a Geology freak and I have his books.
I'll tell you w'out slightest exaggeration; This guy can identify 95% of the Strata anywhere in Utah, monutains, mesatops, you name them. I have great respect for his work.
I just cannot understand guys like him or Orson Scott Card who writes one the best Sci-Fi, can so gullibly buy a below average badly concocted, disjointed story of Joseph smith.
These People are not stupid and definitely they are not gullible.
There's gotta be another angle to this Gig.
And I cannot figure it out to save my life.